Realism vs Simplicity in 3.5E

[Crothian]

The weapon size rules perhaps?

Most of the stuff that is simpler in 3.5 isn't simpler because the way the rules function changed all that much, but because they explain it better (AoO.)

I got that he was talking about the wepaon sizes rules, but I don't get how the old system was simplier. It might be better explained now, and if thats the case then its just another thing I like about 3.5 then

 

[Psion]

Nor I.

Well, possibly, but only because the 3E weapon size rules were full of holes.

You mean like a supposedly "small longspear" having the same reach as a medium longspear.

More complications (weapon variants to track, modifiers of a sort that are usually just ignored in D&D, a game that doesn't bother tracking, frex, penalties for injuries), and still not any more realistic on the whole. Not worth the trouble.

 

[Psion]

I got that he was talking about the wepaon sizes rules, but I don't get how the old system was simplier.

Well, the old system just had you track the size of the weapon. The hands it took you to use the weapon (or "light"-ness) depended on the size of the weapon compared to the user.

The new weapon rules not only have you tracking how wieldy the weapon is, it also makes you track the size of being it was made for for the purposes of extra modifiers.

And really, in additions to the concerns about longspears that whallop my SOD mentioned above, it seems to me that a lot of weapons really wouldn't be that unwieldy when used by someone of a difference size. The supposed reason for the penalty is, in pary, grip sizes, but humans in the real world use weapons that have a thin enough grip halflings can use them easily, so I don't see the reason given for it being universal enough to justify a modifier.

 

[MerricB]

The supposed reason for the penalty is, in pary, grip sizes, but humans in the real world use weapons that have a thin enough grip halflings can use them easily, so I don't see the reason given for it being universal enough to justify a modifier.

Well, actually it's there to make it simple in its universality. I don't think that the rule makes so much sense from a realistic standpoint, but it cleans up the weapon proficiency rules greatly.

What weapons was an ogre rogue proficient with in 3E?

Ditto for a Titan Rogue.

Cheers!

 

[Pants]

I don't see how anyone can say that the 3.5 weapon-size rules 'are more complicated.' They may lack realism and be a bit wonky with logic, but they are no more complicated than the 3e rules.

*shrugs*

It does help make designing monsters and scaling weapon damage MUCH, MUCH simpler though...

 

[demiurge1138]

The weapons rules in 3.5 are a bit more complex. Only a little. And that's mostly because we were used to 3.0 sizing rules. They still work. And in general, 3.5 is simpler than 3.0 in plenty of respects (the standardization of monsters, for example, has made my life a lot easier).

Demiurge out.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Heh. In my own case, I disagree with Sean's initial premise--namely, that "3.0 erred on the side of simplicity."

I love 3E, don't get me wrong, but from day one, the game's had lots of details that I felt were way more complex than they needed to be, presumably to add "realism." Skill synergies. The extensive skill list, which could easily be pared down to half its length. The fact that the various special attacks (disarm, sunder, trip, bull rush, etc.) don't all use one universal mechanic. All of these are things that complicate matters and don't (IMO) add anything to the game except a level of "realism" that is (again IMO) simply unnecessary.

But that's just me.

 

[Psion]

Well, actually it's there to make it simple in its universality. I don't think that the rule makes so much sense from a realistic standpoint, but it cleans up the weapon proficiency rules greatly.

Cleans up? I'm not in any way seeing how it is "cleaned up."

 

[MerricB]

Cleans up? I'm not in any way seeing how it is "cleaned up."

Psion, under 3E rules, what proficiency does a human need to wield a ogre's longsword (a Large weapon)?

What weapons does an Ogre Rogue have proficiency with?

Cheers!

 

[diaglo]

i'm with Bendris. i don't pay attention to rants from ...what's her name.