D&D 5E Reasons Why My Interest in 5e is Waning

[Trickster Spirit]

I must say I do not understand the whole "you have no imagination" critic. First, some people do not have a great imagination. Not their fault and they shouldn't be punished for that. Secondly, time is a finite resource. Thirdly, I find a lot of printed material to fire up my imagination. In the ecology of monsters I often found seeds of adventures or encounters, like I have by reading novels, watching films or playing other games.

The whole argument just sound arrogant. And I should know, I'm an arrogant bastard.

I agree, that's a lame argument. I think of myself as someone with a pretty good imagination and I still would be interested in professional resources - one, because these people do this for a living and are likely more imaginative than I, and two because it would save me plenty of work even if I'm just pulling out encounters or inspiration for my own purposes. No one becomes a great storyteller in a vacuum and as a DM I like seeing what others are doing with the game, even if it only reinforces that I want to do something differently.

Ultimately though I just think it comes down to a business decision re: where to best channel the talent's imagination - is it better for them to focus on tabletop rules supplements, campaign settings and adventures, or video games? I can't really fault them for deciding to invest cash that could otherwise provide plenty of resources for the tabletop game elsewhere if that "elsewhere" is the $93 billion dollar video game industry (compared to pen and paper RPGs' $15 million size last year).

 

[Kramodlog]

I agree, that's a lame argument. I think of myself as someone with a pretty good imagination and I still would be interested in professional resources - one, because these people do this for a living and are likely more imaginative than I, and two because it would save me plenty of work even if I'm just pulling out encounters or inspiration for my own purposes. No one becomes a great storyteller in a vacuum and as a DM I like seeing what others are doing with the game, even if it only reinforces that I want to do something differently.

Ultimately though I just think it comes down to a business decision re: where to best channel the talent's imagination - is it better for them to focus on tabletop rules supplements, campaign settings and adventures, or video games? I can't really fault them for deciding to invest cash that could otherwise provide plenty of resources for the tabletop game elsewhere if that "elsewhere" is the $93 billion dollar video game industry (compared to pen and paper RPGs' $15 million size last year).

Put ain't licensing done to avoid investing rare and precious cash into other medium? Third parties take the risk of investing cash.

And the much used 15 million number industry comes from 2013, a year when WotC stopped releasing D&D books. With D&D, that number might be a bit higher. Considering ICv2 said that the sells of RPG increased in 2014, when 5e was released, that number might be on the rise.

 

[Sunseeker]

I think you are ultimately wrong.

Look at the mass departures from 4E. The hobby did just fine.

People want to play RPGs. (At least the small niche group of us).
D&D could get pulled from shelves everywhere tomorrow and we would still want to play RPGs.
And the demand would be met.

D&D is part of the hobby. But harming D&D will (ultimately) help some other game (perhaps one that doesn't even exist yet) and the net impact on the hobby will be nothing.

I disagree completely. The ability to find a table to play 4th at was absolutely horrendous, and I liked 4th! Aside from a couple good friends who entertained me DMing it and one who also liked it, the only time I ever found a 4e group was through Encounters. My consumption of D&D products dropped, my interest in future products dropped, my desire to find a table and wade through the armies of anti-4e-ism dropped. I've had discussions with other people who had the same experiences. That is a net NEGATIVE impact on the hobby: fewer games played, fewer people playing, fewer people buying, fewer people enjoying the hobby.

Reducing the argument to "If it doesn't completely annihilate D&D then it has no effect." is a sort of black and white position that makes discussion here impossible.

Similar experiences now doubt can be found in any edition, though it is usually not the edition's fault, it's either a top-down effect (WOTC pushing a new product over everything else and alienating customers) or a bottom-up effect of the players doing the same.

Extending "the hobby" to include every RPG on the market waters down the value of your argument as to meaninglessness. Sure, there will always be RPGs out there, but to this day I've never had any interest in a LOT of them. Maybe my window of enjoyable RPGs is narrow, but I doubt that everyone will simply play whatever system is available when their preferred systems are unavailable.

Damage CAN be done to the hobby that doesn't result in it's untimely demise. Keeping arguments focused also helps with discussion. Trying to quantify how much damage WOTC does to all of RPGs in forever is somewhat hard considering they only publish one, even if a popular one.

 

[BryonD]

I disagree completely. The ability to find a table to play 4th at was absolutely horrendous, and I liked 4th! Aside from a couple good friends who entertained me DMing it and one who also liked it, the only time I ever found a 4e group was through Encounters. My consumption of D&D products dropped, my interest in future products dropped, my desire to find a table and wade through the armies of anti-4e-ism dropped. I've had discussions with other people who had the same experiences. That is a net NEGATIVE impact on the hobby: fewer games played, fewer people playing, fewer people buying, fewer people enjoying the hobby.

Reducing the argument to "If it doesn't completely annihilate D&D then it has no effect." is a sort of black and white position that makes discussion here impossible.

I'm sorry that was your experience.

It remained easy to find games in my area.
My understanding is that the conventions saw no loss.

I think you are mistaking your anecdote for universal truth.

The market has done just fine.

Extending "the hobby" to include every RPG on the market waters down the value of your argument as to meaninglessness.

Strange claim.

No, it does not.

Damage CAN be done to the hobby that doesn't result in it's untimely demise

Possibly true. But damage to any one game (even D&D) isn't going to meet this (your personal experiences to the contrary notwithstanding)

 

[Sunseeker]

I'm sorry that was your experience.

It remained easy to find games in my area.
My understanding is that the conventions saw no loss.

I think you are mistaking your anecdote for universal truth.

The market has done just fine.



Strange claim.

No, it does not.

Possibly true. But damage to any one game (even D&D) isn't going to meet this (your personal experiences to the contrary notwithstanding)

I feel like you're somewhat implying that I need to provide documented statistical proof for anything I say. Which is quite frankly: a load of puckey.

 

[BryonD]

I feel like you're somewhat implying that I need to provide documented statistical proof for anything I say. Which is quite frankly: a load of puckey.

There seems to be a trend of you feeling things that are not there.
Are you saying because YOU personally observed it that it was universal?

I said the conventions didn't see this change, are you accepting this or are you demanding a load of puckey from me?


I'm sorry it went badly for you personally. I accept it as the Word of God that you experienced this.
The market did well overall, this contrast is not a strange occurrence.
If you can't accept the compatibility of these two things, so be it.


Best of gaming to you.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I disagree completely. The ability to find a table to play 4th at was absolutely horrendous, and I liked 4th! Aside from a couple good friends who entertained me DMing it and one who also liked it, the only time I ever found a 4e group was through Encounters. My consumption of D&D products dropped, my interest in future products dropped, my desire to find a table and wade through the armies of anti-4e-ism dropped. I've had discussions with other people who had the same experiences. That is a net NEGATIVE impact on the hobby: fewer games played, fewer people playing, fewer people buying, fewer people enjoying the hobby.

I'm not sure I see how that's harming the hobby, as a whole. I also didn't see that, at all, in my area, but what game is popular where, and whether there's an FLGS running organized play makes a big difference. I suppose the edition war may have completely put off some people, but those who weren't clued into it and were just trying D&D for the first time would likely check the WotC web site, find an Encounters table, and play. Lots of them did when I was running Encounters in the period in question, and a surprising number of them joined the hobby as a result.

Sure, there will always be RPGs out there, but to this day I've never had any interest in a LOT of them. Maybe my window of enjoyable RPGs is narrow, but I doubt that everyone will simply play whatever system is available when their preferred systems are unavailable.

Now that's always been true. There are lots of RPGs, finding one you really like is easy - finding several other people who have settled on really liking that same one so you can actually play it is a lot harder. But it's rarely hard to find several people willing to settle for playing D&D.

 

[Sailor Moon]

but I doubt that everyone will simply play whatever system is available when their preferred systems are unavailable.

The thing is though, there are various systems out there now that give you the "D&D experience" so when products for the preferred system aren't available, it is easier to just go somewhere else.

I think Wizards has this silly notion of brand loyalty being like it used to be so they believe they can just take their time and release stuff when they want at a slow pace.

 

[Hussar]

So, let me understand this, the size of the industry drops nearly in half with the departure of WOTC and 4e, and that's not harming the hobby? I'd say that's pretty destructive and indicative of what will happen if Hasbro actually does shelve D&D. Was there any indications of growth after WOTC's departure? I doubt it. If WOTC and D&D drop out of the hobby industry, we dwindle and die in ten years.

 

[Sailor Moon]

So, let me understand this, the size of the industry drops nearly in half with the departure of WOTC and 4e, and that's not harming the hobby? I'd say that's pretty destructive and indicative of what will happen if Hasbro actually does shelve D&D. Was there any indications of growth after WOTC's departure? I doubt it. If WOTC and D&D drop out of the hobby industry, we dwindle and die in ten years.

Uh no.

D&D does not keep the hobby alive. If D&D were shelved right now then people would just play older editions or go to another system. You are giving D&D way too much credit and value. The game doesn't carry the weight it used too.