D&D (2024) Rebalancing melee weapons for 5.5E

[Horwath]

@Yaarel
yeah, that is more or less my idea,
but I started at d8 simple, d10 for martial.
and versatile should be worse than dedicated 2Hander as then 2Hander does not make sense unless it's heavy

also I would not combine finesse and heavy properties

 

[Yaarel]

@Yaarel
yeah, that is more or less my idea,
but I started at d8 simple, d10 for martial.
and versatile should be worse than dedicated 2Hander as then 2Hander does not make sense unless it's heavy

also I would not combine finesse and heavy properties

If the versatile is worse than twohanded then it becomes worthless.

Besides, in reallife, the only difference between a longsword that is onehanded, hand-and-half, and twohanded, is the shape of the grip and the preference of the user. Stat-wise, they are the same weapon.

When versatile is as good as two-handed, then the choice to wield two-handed or use a shield becomes tactically interesting.



The results for simple 1d6 base damage and martial 1d8 base damage look right.

 

[shadowoflameth]

I like having bastard sword become part of longsword in 5e. That was OK. But I would still like to see exotic weapons. If it's called the Special Property, that's OK too. Not a game breaking change but there are weapons, particularly the Net, blowgun and flail that no one has a reason to want that I can see other than flavor.

 

[Horwath]

If the versatile is worse than twohanded then it becomes worthless.

Besides, in reallife, the only difference between a longsword that is onehanded, hand-and-half, and twohanded, is the shape of the grip and the preference of the user. Stat-wise, they are the same weapon.

When versatile is as good as two-handed, then the choice to wield two-handed or use a shield becomes tactically interesting.

yes, but if 2Handed has same damage as 1Handed+versatile, there is no reason to produce 2Handed weapons at all.
why would you make a weapon that has fewer amount of potential users with no upside for it?

The results for simple 1d6 base damage and martial 1d8 base damage look right.

most monsters are bags of HPs, I dont mind slight bump to damage.
and it looks nicer when you improve STR weapons and not reduce DEX weapons

and I went with 3.5e base of simple mace. 1d8 damage.
longsword was also d8 but with 19-20crit range. since we do not have that in 5E, d10 is next logical step.

 

[Yaarel]

yes, but if 2Handed has same damage as 1Handed+versatile, there is no reason to produce 2Handed weapons at all.
why would you make a weapon that has fewer amount of potential users with no upside for it?

The greatsword (reallife renaissance zweihaender) is an odd weapon that D&D doesnt describe well anyway. It is more like a reach weapon that can only target a creature at reach, cant target adjacent creatures.

Other twohanded weapons inherently require two hands, like a bow or a pike.

Even for the sake flavor and "plot protection", the D&D mechanics need to ensure that the medieval Sword and Longsword are as good, if not better than the renaissance Greatsword and Rapier.

most monsters are bags of HPs, I dont mind slight bump to damage.
and it looks nicer when you improve STR weapons and not reduce DEX weapons

and I went with 3.5e base of simple mace. 1d8 damage.
longsword was also d8 but with 19-20crit range. since we do not have that in 5E, d10 is next logical step.

The 5e mace is a simple weapon and deals 1d6 damage, as the simple weapons should.

I would do the clubs as follows, tho.

Simple Weapons
Baton 1d4 bludgeon: finesse
Sap 1d4 bludgeon: light
Club 1d6 bludgeon: −
Greatclub 1d6 bludgeon: versatile (1d10)
Throwstick 1d4 bludgeon: throw

Martial Weapons
Nunchaku 1d10 bludgeon: finesse, twohanded
Mace 1d8 bludgeon: versatile (1d12)
Greatmace 2d6 bludgeon: heavy, twohanded

 

[Horwath]

The greatsword (reallife renaissance zweihaender) is an odd weapon that D&D doesnt describe well anyway. It is more like a reach weapon that can only target a creature at reach, cant target adjacent creatures.

Other twohanded weapons inherently require two hands, like a bow or a pike.


The 5e mace is a simple weapon and deals 1d6 damage, as the simple weapons should.

I would do the clubs as follows, tho.

Simple Weapons
Baton 1d4 bludgeon: finesse
Sap 1d4 bludgeon: light
Club 1d6 bludgeon: −
Greatclub 1d6 bludgeon: versatile (1d10)
Throwstick 1d4 bludgeon: throw

Martial Weapons
Nunchaku 1d10 bludgeon: finesse, twohanded
Mace 1d8 bludgeon: versatile (1d12)
Greatmace 2d6 bludgeon: heavy, twohanded

one of the reasons for base d8 is, fewer d4 weapons.
I really hate the d4 dice.

 

[Yaarel]

one of the reasons for base d8 is, fewer d4 weapons.
I really hate the d4 dice.

I sympathize. (There is an awesome 12-sided d4.)

But simple weapons are "simple" for a reason.

The martial weapons with their unusually heavier damage require extensive training to wield properly.

 

[Gorck]

one of the reasons for base d8 is, fewer d4 weapons.
I really hate the d4 dice.

I feel the same way. I find them to be dissatisfying to roll. since they do more of a "plop" than a "roll."

 

[Horwath]

I feel the same way. I find them to be dissatisfying to roll. since they do more of a "plop" than a "roll."

one more way to reduce the d4 weapons is to remove weapon categories and have all weapons at "martial" damage level all proficient with all weapons.

investment in str/dex, class features, weapon based feats, extra attack(s), attack riders(sneak attack, smite, battlemaster), fighting styles should be enough to separate a martial character from non martial.

 

[Yaarel]

one more way to reduce the d4 weapons is to remove weapon categories and have all weapons at "martial" damage level

That might be for the best. Make all weapons martial weapons. Even reusable tools like knife, hatchet, and staff need training to wield effectively.

Besides, a spear feels it should be as effective as a martial weapon.

There is no point having "simple" weapons anymore.

Wizards now have cantrips instead of weapons. The Wizard class can have zero weapon proficiencies. But the allow swapping out one cantrip for one martial weapon.

Every other class should have effective weapons.