Red Box: Some Constructive Criticism

[AngryMojo]

I think the Dragon Age boxed set is a much better value in the end than the WotC red box. I just have to wonder how Green Ronin, with appropriate licensing fees to Bioware, was still able to afford such a great introductory set with very high production values and WotC can't top them.

1. It's $10 more expensive.
2. Does not contain tokens, cards, and the map is one-sided (I think)
3. Only includes three dice, which are d6's (d6's are much much cheaper than other polyhedrals, especially when ordered in bulk.)

 

[asdfff]

Analogy:

Instead of releasing a full-fledged demo, or maybe even a shareware episode to get everyone's attention and reel new players in,

WOTC got greedy and released a 1-level flash demo...that you have to pay for.

New players will grudgingly agree to play one red box session with their already-gamer friends, and then never look back.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The major difference being that, in the 80's there were two separate product lines; D&D and AD&D. The Holmes book was indeed a mishmash product caught between the two lines.

True, in the 80s we had AD&D which had core hardbound books, and D&D which had a series of lower-price-point boxed sets for the more causal gamer. Also, in the 80s, you had Arduin chugging along as an ongoing third-party expansion of the original white-box D&D.

Today, you have 4e D&D, which is a series of hardbound books, and Essentials, which is a series of softbound lower-price-point products for the more casual gamer. And, incidentally, Pathfinder chugging along as an ongoing third-party expansion of the prior 3.5e D&D.

So, yes, I think my analogy holds. The old Basic D&D set was an entry point to both AD&D and D&D, and for those who went on to AD&D, it was a jarring experience. An experience the new Red Box faithfully (if not, presumably, intentionally) reproduces.

 

[FabioMilitoPagliara]

If the DM's Book didn't have to include an adventure, and the Players Book was still 64 pages, there'd be plenty of room for the material I and others have suggested. Class & race writeups, character creation, and equipment tables would take up less than 32 pages. Printing the (16 page) adventure separately would free up that many pages in the DM Book. A substantial list of magic items would take up, at most, 10.

while I would liked this, I think that in the end that would have gone to another 32 page book or maybe 2 and that means at least a selling point of 30$ or more or different contents

the problem (in my mind) is that if you want to be coherent you should put all the power cards of the added power (and to make rules for the first level that mean at least 3-4 power of each level), all the item cards of the added magic items and so on

so adding content has an exponential increase in price

what I would do (if I was in Wizard) would be to put online a 32 page booklet for creating essential character (with less than full option, you will get full option with the character builder that already now has rules for level 1 to 3)

if you consider the character builder once you point the interested players to the site you can create a lot of character and you have a lot of item and equipment ready to use on your computer

 

[nookiemonster]

I think the red box is pretty good in some respects, bad in others, and has a few ugly bits.

The Good:
- Pre-programmed adventure.
- Four different characters.
- Physical quality of components is good. Sturdy box, glossy paper, nice useful map, thick tokens.
- Could easily be used by an experienced player to get a child into the game. Just read the options and flavour text to the new player.
- I enjoyed the bonus Witchlight Fens adventure.

The Bad.
- A bit confusing in certain parts, and you need to read it the adventure quite carefully or you miss parts, such as the bullet point in section #83 that tells you to go back and fill in your constitution if you haven't already. A lot of readers seem to miss that, and I did too on my first run-through. That really should have been put in earlier, in the part where you fill in your other scores.
- Certain things are glossed over and it would be confusing going from there to a 'real' adventure.
- The Witchlight Fens adventure bad guy is a bit complex for a complete newb IMO.
- Some type of character creation summary in the DM's guide would have been useful.
- The Witchlight Fens adventure mentions a "third-level common magic item that your character would like to have". Well, if you only have the Red Box, you have no idea what the heck a "third level common magic item" is. I would just put in the stats for a +1 Amulet of Health and explain how it works. (Pretty straightforward item, and what low-level character couldn't use better defenses?) Also, we don't know what a +1 Magic Longsword does.

The Ugly:
- Errors and typos. Come on, WotC, this is going to be the first exposure many people have to your company. You've got to put your best foot forward!

 

[Kobold Boots]

Oh, that's right.

I forgot that experienced hobbyists with decades spent enjoying their hobby never:

• introduce their hobby to people who have never enjoyed it before,
• reintroduce their hobby to people who enjoyed it in the past but stopped participating for whatever reason, or
• demonstrate their hobby to people who have misperceptions of what their hobby actually involves.

And since none of those things is true, they certainly never hope for a well-executed, well-priced product from the market leader in their hobby that they can use and recommend others use to introduce, reintroduce, or dispel myths about their hobby.

Certainly not doing these things for decades does not give them the experience by which they can judge a product they own and have examined.

Thank you for pointing out how wrong I have been to pass judgement on this product.

.. and 20 year gamers who want to bring others into the game certainly don't need this product as you're able to replace the product with a mentorship approach... For example, I have an eight year old son that's being brought in slowly by occasionally sitting in on my group.

If you want a product to replace you.. well that's impossible from the outset and not what Red Box is for.

I think that those who dislike whatever WoTC is doing at present will always find some cross to bear that's inappropriate. Nuff said there.

What I agree with in regards to all the other posts, is that there's no excuse for poor copyediting. So I'll drop my rant hat in with that group

 

[Imaro]

1. It's $10 more expensive.
2. Does not contain tokens, cards, and the map is one-sided (I think)
3. Only includes three dice, which are d6's (d6's are much much cheaper than other polyhedrals, especially when ordered in bulk.)

1. The $10 extra is actually cheaper when you get down to play reusability.
2. It is a full game that goes to level 5 of play and doesn't use tokens or cards for gameplay (so why include them??)
3. The books are sturdier (with actual covers).

 

[Imaro]

And I think those who are going to praise whatever WotC is doing at present will always find some way to justify anything they put out as a good product. Nuff said here.

 

[ExploderWizard]

"You can't use any of it"? Didn't you learn the core mechanics of 4E gameplay and have an adventure in the process (without anyone showing you how to)?

Heh. Not the stuff in the boxed set. I was talking about the loot your character might aquire in the game.

 

[Festivus]

Heh. Not the stuff in the boxed set. I was talking about the loot your character might aquire in the game.

Yep, sorry, was kind of splitting hairs there, I agree with some points but not with the epic fail. It's just a fail with some audience members.

This thread is getting cyclical, I think I shall see nothing new or constructive added to it. *rolls a d20* Yep.