Redesigning and re-branding EN World

[reapersaurus]

Seriously, though - what are you talking about? The change will be implemented by me. It won't involve any complex databases or anything (because that's beyond me) but why on earth does that preclude an html redesign?

Then I am confused about what exactly you are proposing being changed.

"Redesign" could mean lots of things.

Reading your posts, it may just be a re-arrangement of pages and links and presentation of material.

However, most of the posters in this thread commented about the colors, pictures, etc.

My understanding is that you are not a creator of images, animated menus, etc.
Therefore, my perception was you wanting a change in look, and someone else would be doing the images and color-scheme changes.

Hence my caveat at the end: If you do have those skills, than ignore what I said.

Archangel - I got no problem with Morrus' post. He didn't offend.
He seemed pretty straight-forward with me, and Colonel Hardisson is exactly right in his statements.
I agreed with his desire for a reorg... I'm just confused about what his "redesign" would mean.

 

[bloodymage]

Name change

I'm not web saavy enough to suggest changes to the site. I'll join the chorus and say the color scheme is easy on the eyes. The only thing I have a strong feeling about is a name change. I've seen some suggestions to rename 3EN or incorporate d20 or D&D into a new name. I came to ENWorld as a role-player. I've played in game systems other than D&D, I'm starting up a new additional campaign in 1e and I still think d% are the dice to roll in some situations. I am adamantly against any new name which narrows the perceived focus of the site from a "site for gamers." A new name would be OK, but ENWorld is a fine name as it is.

Just my 2 coppers

 

[Morrus]

Sure, I'll try and clarify a little more.

There are two groups that I intend to benefit from this redesign: myself (as the person who has to administrate everything) and the visitors (as the people who use everything).

Now, I know what will benefit me personally - and that's prretty much outlined above. In addition, I'm just a little bored with the current way things are and would like to freshen the place up.

The second part - what would benefit the users - is more the purpose of this thread. What benefits me may not be what benefits them. Or the visitors could have a desire for a different structure that I could accomodate fairly easily.

So, this is an information gathering exercise. I'm not saying that everything that gets suggests will get done (hell, I have to say that I hate that "3EN World" idea - no offence!). Some of the suggestions may be too extravagant or beyond my capability, in which case they won't be done. But other suggestions will be within the realms of possibility - or may start a line of thinking in a new direction.

Re. the comments on other people doing stuff. The bulk of the work will, as always, fall on me. And that's fine by me - it's my site, my responsibility. Occasionally people do chip in with something small - a logo or graphic;and that's cool too - it's what makes this such a cool community because people care enough to do that. But other than the occsional little thing, everything has to be within my capabilities. General thematic or organisation redesign is well within my capabilities; massive database systems or interactive graphics are not.

Re. renaming. That is less important to me than the redesign; however, I figured that if there was a time to do it, it should be at the same time as the redesign. I'm never going to use flowery names like"RPG Dungeon". The title of Eric's old site was to my taste (in a utility sense) although I personally considered it too long and clumsy. But it served the function of telling you exactly what the site was, which is the approach I prefer with a site name.

 

[Morrus]

There is another factor, too, which is harder to explain - but I'll try.

This is a fan site. It's not Gaming Report (an industry media site). It's a community of gamers who use it for their needs, whatever they may be (only a small percentage actually use the boards, so there are many others to take into account).

Now - I don't want to be "that news organisation that publishers send their press releases too". That's just not what I'm interested in doing. Yeah, I post news. Yeah, I'll continue to do so. But my thoughts on "rebranding" encompass more than a name change - we're talking more of a "back to basics, Eric Noah style affair". Something that's personal, warm and homely - I feel that these days the site is becoming more and more "official" and "organisation-like".

I'm really not explaining this well.

It's like this. The trend has been more and more for publishers, other sites etc. to send impersonal press releases etc. Sometimes, it's more of a terse instruction. But the side-effect of it is that I start to feel more and more like the PHP-Nuke powered sites that I don't like. Except that in place of automated code, there's me. I just feel like a piece of software, sometimes. And I don't want to end up like that - if I do, well - I'll stop. Not interested in running Gaming Report #2.

So the rebranding (that's probably not even the right word) is partly to emphasise that this is a fan community, and a fan site, not a faceless news reporting agency.

I still have the disquieting feeling that I've either not explained myself correctly here or that, even worse, I've put across the wrong impression. If you're unclear, please ask - it's important to me that you guys know where I'm coming from.

A couple of other things that factor into this -

*One person brought up the recent thread on expanding into other RPG news. They were correct that that thread was a sympton of the same issue, although in a tangential way. Now, don't misunderstand me: I'm a full-on D&D/d20 fan. I want to run a D&D site. But this, I think, was an attempt to spread my eggs into other baskets.

*I'm vaguely considering changing my approach to news reporting. I haven't figured it out yet, but, as I said above, posting people's press releases is boring - and could be handled by automated code. I'm fully against automated code as I think it seems impersonal, and the main news will always be hand-written by me. But I want to make it more interesting and to inject more of myself into it before I actually turn into a robot.

I'm also a little fed up of "politics". Although I'm not as involved in such stuff as some publishers are, I find myself feeling..umm...I dunno. Let's just say, I'm going to start saying more what I think in public without worrying so much about keeping publishers happy. That doesn't mean I'm going to start sayig nasty things about publishers - far from it! It just means I'm going to be more "casual" (while still being equally as comprehensive!). Because the alternative is to just be an extension of publisher marketing departments (which is what I feel I am, right now), and I have no interest in that. That's not running my personal fan site (which all you guys are very welcome guests at!). I'm not anybody's PR department, although some seem to think otherwise.

So, that's a closer look at what's going on in my head. I hope it helps to clarify things. The change is as much about "shaking things up" as it is about making adminstrative tasks easier.

Getting more visitors isn't a goal. Being happy with what I do is; and the people here being happy with what I do is equally important. I'm here for the fans first and foremost - the publishers are in a distant second place.

 

[GuardianLurker]

There are some vague areas - some pages form both a resource archive and an information pages (the Electronic Aids page, for example - lots of downloads, plus lots of links and info).

So? Put it in both; cross-link it. You don't have to keep the tree acyclic, after all. Though you should probably provide uplinks into the other categories.

Morrus, I like most of the new layout. I'm a little confused however, are the 3-dash entries the second or third tier? And what goes under "Other Resources"?

I've added my comments/suggestions to the map in italics.


COMMUNITY
INFO
ARCHIVE
RESOURCES
HOSTED SITES
SHOPPING
ENNIES
SITE ADMIN
(And the news splash, right?)

Community
-Messageboards
-Chat Room
-Interviews
-Fan Sites (cross-linked from the info page)?

Info
-D20 Guide
---Publisher List
---Upcoming Products
---Top 20 Products
---Recent Reviews
--- ENnies (cross-link)
-Guide to Free Adventures
--- (broken down by publisher? WotC has a TON)
-Electronic Aids
---e-Tools
---Neverwinter Nights
-D&D Links

Archive (Black Pages)

Resources
-Conversion Library
-Story Hour
-Competition Entries
-Open Gaming (SRD, OGL, etc)
-Other Resources

Hosted Sites
-The Creature Catalog
-Claudio Pozas Art & Design
-Realmscrafters
-Roleplaying Master
-Crooked Staff Productions
-Daemonforge
-Umbragia: Realms of Shadow
-Dusk
-The Cosmonomicon
-Malls & Morons
-Middle Earth 3E

Shopping
-EN World RPG Shop
-Natural 20 Press
---Asgard Magazine
--- (Other Nat 20 products [like Tourneys,...])
-EN World Cafe-Press Store
-Upcoming Products (cross-link from info)
-Top 20 Products (cross-link from info)
- Ennies (cross-link)

ENnies
-ENnies 2001
-ENnies 2002


Site Admin
-Contact details
-Ad rates
-Supporter pages
-Logos done by people
-Site FAQs (added)



Now I think I'll shut up before I get into trouble.

[Edit: fixed hierarchy error.]

 

[Morrus]

No, that's cool, Guardian.

I'll try an explain that "tree" a little more.

Each of the 5 (was it 5?) primary links (COMMUNITY, RESOURCES etc.) goes to a page. On that page itself is plenty of info. The "three-dashes" are pages leading off that page.

So your design has the ENnies as a sub-page of the Cafe-Press store (which sells t-shirts!)

An example -

ELECTRONIC AIDS
---e-Tools
---NWN

This is already set up exactly like that: http://www.enworld.org/3eelectronic.htm

So, from the front page, you'd click on "Info" and you'd get something like this:

"Welcome to the info page. This page has info on it. Here's some info". There would then be links on that page to D20 Guide, Guide to Free Adventures, D20 Guide and Links.

 

[theeye3e]

ENWorld Layout

I agree with everyone about not changing the name. ENWorld is not only well known, but is also well respected, with that respect beginning with Eric and continuing with you.

I believe that the layout needs a little tweaking, and streamlining the site to be more user-friendly would be a big improvement.

The color scheme is also a concern. Yes, the color scheme is easy on the eyes, but the size of the front page makes the colors seem drab (no offense). The human eyes respond to lighter, brighter colors more than darker colors.

As a Web Designer myself, I believe that simplicity is king.

Either way you decide to go with the site, I will always come back to get my D20/D&D news from ENWorld.

 

[Archangel]

...Getting more visitors isn't a goal. Being happy with what I do is; and the people here being happy with what I do is equally important. I'm here for the fans first and foremost - the publishers are in a distant second place...

Now I feel silly for not asking, but thank you for the explanation. As to your saying what you want to say, good. I can always click the company's link if I want to hear (er..I mean read) what they have to say. I want to hear your opinion, as you are privy to some stuff the rest of us aren't (maybe not as much as you would like, but more than most of us). That is why I read the boards and that is why I enjoy Monte's and Sean's opinions. In fact, I do not know if you want another news category, but editorial would be appropriate. Whenever you have something to share, put it in the daily news under the heading of editorial. People that are not interested will see the heading and be able to skip right past it, while those who are will see it right away.

All in all, I would support any change that makes your job easier, more satisfying, and still gives me this valuable resource (well, I will support it more after GenCon, when I can afford to purchase some EN World merchandise).

As to the name thing again, I think that EN World does a lot to say this is for the fans, for it was started at 3rd Edition News by Eric for the fans, and it was for the fans that you picked up the baton. So, I guess I am still against a name change, but in the spirit of fair play how about these ideas:

d20 Community
D&D Community
D&D Geeks (I know, but look it could be catchy and begs for a cool logo)
Where's Morrus (you could hide a picture of you somewhere on the website each day and we could try to find it - )
d20 News (kind of cries back to 3rd Edition News

I guess that is all I have.

 

[Darraketh]

*I'm vaguely considering changing my approach to news reporting... ...But I want to make it more interesting and to inject more of myself into it before I actually turn into a robot.

Morrus, that is actually a good idea. However the site will be all you.

I can see an almost daily column of your reporting on the industry happenings. No press releases! If a company can't take the time to address you personally, then they can just post their press releases on their own sites.

This will actually be more work for you. You'll have to be proactive, which is a little difficult when you are thousands of miles from some of your sources. You'll have to probe your sources to get the scoop behind the press releases.

Without the generic news you'll need to offer something in a style that will keep people comimg back. You may not be interested in growing the site but I dare say you wouldn't find running it much fun if everyone left.

Personalizing the site by focusing on your news reporting will put people in the position of having to decide if they like your style, opinions, effort, etc. It will be all you baby.

I say, go for it! This is a small change as opposed to a name and another url change.

You may want to just get a toe wet first by doing an editorial. Try doing a regular column on a weekly basis where you go after the news and bring it back.

 

[XCorvis]

OK, here's my suggestions for a site redesign. I'm just gonna throw them all out.

Keep the name. Name recognition is important.

Change the color scheme. Warchild suggested red and gold, which could be very lively. Just moving away from the dominant black and grey scheme will make the whole site seem lighter and more friendly.

I like your news groupings and the layout of that, so keep that roughly the same.

The side bars are awful, IMO. The one on the left contains too many navigation links. It's virtually a sitemap.
The one on the right is way too long with too many pics. Move the WotC product schedule somewhere else, or at least shrink it - no images, no extra text.

Again, IMO, the sidebars should be static - nothing on them changes regularly. So contests, product schedules, anything that could be updated and is not considered a layout change should be bumped somewhere else. So a contest page and a product schedule page would be in order. You could, of course, still include links to them in prominent places.

The news page is particularly long today. You might want to limit it to "today" and "yesterday". I like the idea of daily/weekly archive pages, rather than monthly, but I don't usually go to the archives so it doesn't matter too much to me.

Put all the archive links on a separate page.

If you do all that, you should be down to one sidebar (use the left one, I think). You would be updating multiple pages, but each page should have less stuff to deal with, and most of the sub-pages would get updated less frequently. The page itself would be smaller and load faster, which should be good for everyone.

Comments on my comments are welcome.