D&D 5E Reducing Power Gaming

[Horwath]

Drop full casters out of the game. This will get rid of 90% of your problems.

or remove 6th-9th level spells and increase number of 1-5th level spell slots at levels 11+ to compensate.

modified spell slot progression table:

left table current, right table modified.

SP(spellpoints) column to compare both.

 

[Neonchameleon]

This is not to start an argument, but to seek advice: I am not thrilled with how quickly characters become powerful in 5e. I am a dude who started with 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd edition, and I find the powers that characters have very quickly in 5e is a bit...vexing. Similarly, they just get too many powers, in my observation. So what are some ways to take some of that out? Remove bonus actions and reactions? No feats? Limit spell choice (like a ranger could only take spells like Animal Friendship)? I'm open to ideas.

My crew plays on Roll20, so it's not hard to futz with the built in 5e character sheet. I'd love some FRIENDLY, POLITE council. I'm not yucking anyone's yum.

If you're used to 3.X, all I can say is "this is nowhere near that bad" and that you're suffering from nostalgia goggles. The benchmark 5e class and the one that barely changed from 2014 to 2024 is the wizard. And a 5e wizard gains power significantly less fast than their 3.X equivalents, having fewer spells per day, less effective debilitating spells, and being much less able to stack buffs. And even the much maligned 3.X direct damage spells were far, far better at cleaning out monsters with 3.X hit points than 5e ones are monsters with 5e hit points. So the strongest 5e class is weaker than its 3.0/3.5 equivalent (which is also the strongest 3.0/3.5 class). And nothing except the 2014 L2-4 moon druid was equivalent of CoDzilla while Wands of Cure Light Wounds don't exist.

What has happened is that there's simply much less of a gap between the "chump classes" and the wizard in 5e than in earlier editions. The pre-Unearthed Arcana 1e fighter was basically an equipment caddy who got all their power from preferential access to the loot table (and was massively undertuned thanks to Rob Kunz being an exceptionally good player); only with Weapon Specialisation did they become a meaningful class. And the 3.X fighter was a joke. Meanwhile the 3.0 and 3.5 monks both made the 2014 monk seem good - and the 1e made the 3e one seem good.

My suggestion: Make yourself a 3.5 specialist diviner wizard - then rewrite the character sheet remaking each one of those slots with a prepared spell in it as a class feature. Then realise what 3.X was and that 5e is no longer so much of a game of Magic Users & Muggles and that non-casters get their own cool stuff.

Which means the question is whether you can sell your group on an OSR style game. One where the wizard spells were mostly loot in ways they weren't in 3.X. And that's a matter of group dynamics.

 

[GothmogIV]

This has all been very helpful. Ultimately 5e is a high fantasy, high-powered game. Full-stop. It does what it does, and it does it well. Thank you all for your suggestions and thoughts.

 

[KYRON45]

What are the statistics on people playing D&D that don't like the D&D rules?

 

[Horwath]

What are the statistics on people playing D&D that don't like the D&D rules?

about 99%

 

[Oofta]

What are the statistics on people playing D&D that don't like the D&D rules?

On this forum or everywhere else? Because there's a significant difference.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Does switching to PF 2 really fix anything?

If the problem is…

Similarly, they just get too many powers, in my observation.

then no, switching to PF2 doesn’t fix anything.

Edit. Note, I’m not disagreeing with your original point.

 

[tetrasodium]

What are the statistics on people playing D&D that don't like the D&D rules?

I would expect that you could find them in the same study where you will find the statistics showing what fraction of a percent from D&D's total player base consisting of people who are so certain of its inerrancy that they feel the need to deny and shout down any concerns about or efforts to adjust d&d's default gameplay baselines.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

then no, switching to PF2 doesn’t fix anything

This is down to the concept of the “no spell level” in game design. The idea is, you should get more than a couple of hp as a reward for levelling up. So, by the time you are level 20, you have accumulated a heck of a lot of abilities.

To avoid this, choose a levelless rpg, or one with a low level cap.

 

[Micah Sweet]

or remove 6th-9th level spells and increase number of 1-5th level spell slots at levels 11+ to compensate.

modified spell slot progression table:

View attachment 385003
left table current, right table modified.

SP(spellpoints) column to compare both.

You can also keep 6th to 9th level effects in the game, but make each one a ritual the caster has to find or create in order to cast it, with expensive, lengthy, hard to find components.

You know, make a game out of it.