D&D 5E Regarding DMG, Starter Set and Essentials kit: Are they good for the starting DMs?

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Well it would help if that wasn't literally what was being said.

We are straight-up being told "that's not what the book is for." As in, it would not be useful to add it to this book, because however useful examples might be, they don't belong in the book that claims to guide dungeon masters.

So yes. I completely believe that we are being told that examples are not useful. And while I don't think absolutely everything ever needs an example, I certainly think new DMs need such things, and that the book purporting to be the guide for dungeon masters should have lots and lots of them.

I think the DMG should actually live up to its name. Because that's kind of really REALLY important for getting more DMs, which are absolutely essential for growth in the hobby!
Then let’s repeat. You want the DMG to be better and that examples are always better. Thus you want examples for everything!

I can misconstrue what you are saying to be that. It’s just not useful because you really aren’t saying that. Just like I am really not saying that all examples are not useful, just that circumstances matter. Including 20 different examples of adjudicating a given situation isn’t going to make anything more clear. As an example: There’s a reason the math textbook typically gives multiple examples of the same process instead of examples of 20 different processes that yield 20 different answers.
 

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IMO. I agree with the first sentence, but I disagree with the conclusion. Just because world building isn’t an essential DM activity (one can run published adventures) doesn’t imply it is not a DM activity.
Anyone can do world building. Tolkien was really into it, and he didn't play D&D at all.

One thing you can do as a teacher is buy lesson plans. You do not need to create them yourself, and the people who write the plans do not need to be teachers.

Many teachers will prefer to write their own lesson plans, but they don't have to.

To teach DMing you need to start with the essentials, which is running the game. Because you don't want to throw any more at new players than is absolutely necessary.

World building, along with other forms of content creation, is something players (not only DMs) can move onto once they have mastered the basics. There is a reason the original DMG was called Advanced Dungeons & Dragons.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Anyone can do world building. Tolkien was really into it, and he didn't play D&D at all.

One thing you can do as a teacher is buy lesson plans. You do not need to create them yourself, and the people who write the plans do not need to be teachers.

Many teachers will prefer to write their own lesson plans, but they don't have to.

To teach DMing you need to start with the essentials, which is running the game. Because you don't want to throw any more at new players than is absolutely necessary.

World building, along with other forms of content creation, is something players can move onto once they have mastered the basics. There is a reason the original DMG was called Advanced Dungeons & Dragons.
Why did you immediately jump to the conclusion the DMG is to teach new DMs basic DMing techniques. The name doesn’t imply that. The book itself says to use the starter set for that. What gives you the impression that should be it’s purpose?
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
Why did you immediately jump to the conclusion the DMG is to teach new DMs basic DMing techniques. The name doesn’t imply that. The book itself says to use the starter set for that. What gives you the impression that should be it’s purpose?
RE: the bolded part.

Sure it does. It is the Guide for Dungeon Masters. It should provide guidance that a dungeon master would want. What type of dungeon master needs guidance the most? New ones.
 


Xamnam

Loves Your Favorite Game
Why did you immediately jump to the conclusion the DMG is to teach new DMs basic DMing techniques. The name doesn’t imply that. The book itself says to use the starter set for that. What gives you the impression that should be it’s purpose?
If I see two books, one called The Player's Handbook, and the second called The Dungeon Master's Guide, I would absolutely assume based on the names alone, especially if I'm brand new and don't have any other context, that the second book would be the one to pick up if I wanted to learn/get better at being a DM. The text on the bottom of the cover says "Everything a Dungeon Master needs to weave legendary stories for the world's greatest roleplaying game." That would also suggest to me that it would include instruction, not exclusively advanced resources. I think lots of reasonable people would draw the same expectations from this presentation. Nothing on the book's covers suggests it is not for neophytes.

Also, it's somewhat besides the point, because I know they mention it elsewhere, but a warning in the text that you should start with the Starter Kit is pretty unhelpful if you aren't able to read the text before you buy it.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
If I see two books, one called The Player's Handbook, and the second called The Dungeon Master's Guide, I would absolutely assume based on the names alone, especially if I'm brand new and don't have any other context, that the second book would be the one to pick up if I wanted to learn/get better at being a DM. The text on the bottom of the cover says "Everything a Dungeon Master needs to weave legendary stories for the world's greatest roleplaying game." That would also suggest to me that it would include instruction, not exclusively advanced resources. I think lots of reasonable people would draw the same expectations from this presentation. Nothing on the book's covers suggests it is not for neophytes.

Also, it's somewhat besides the point, because I know they mention it elsewhere, but a warning in the text that you should start with the Starter Kit is pretty unhelpful if you aren't able to read the text before you buy it.
got it. Can’t name anything ‘guide’ if it’s not geared toward novices.
 

Why did you immediately jump to the conclusion the DMG is to teach new DMs basic DMing techniques. The name doesn’t imply that. The book itself says to use the starter set for that. What gives you the impression that should be it’s purpose?
I don't, it's other people who seem to be assuming that - it's in the thread title.
 

Xamnam

Loves Your Favorite Game
got it. Can’t name anything ‘guide’ if it’s not geared toward novices.
No, that's not what I said. There's plenty you can do, like using the supplementary front/back cover text to indicate it's an advanced text, for experienced users.

All I said is that without text like that, it makes sense that some people might think it's an introductory book. The multiple threads on it recently are decent evidence of that.
 

If I see two books, one called The Player's Handbook, and the second called The Dungeon Master's Guide, I would absolutely assume based on the names alone, especially if I'm brand new and don't have any other context, that the second book would be the one to pick up if I wanted to learn/get better at being a DM
It is a reasonable assumption. But this is a problem with labelling. And this assumption, coupled with the size of the book, is one of the reasons there is a DM shortage.

The way to go is starter set, coupled with plentiful online resources (including examples!)
 

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