Regarding some Fighter's powers and feats.

[AbdulAlhazred]

If three effects push 1 a creature... I'm pretty sure it got pushed 3 squares. (Much like if three effects add 2 to damage, you add 6 damage)

Yes, but the key there is "add 2 to damage", which clearly is a stacking situation, assuming that whatever bonus types they are stack (IE they are all untyped or have different types). Tide of Iron and Unstoppable Advance don't add to anything, they specify a specific amount of somthing.

 

[keterys]

Exactly. So, you tide of iron, and push the target 1 square. And since you have unstoppable advance up, and you did hit with a melee attack, you push the target 1 square. Two separate effects, neither of which cancels the other out.

 

[DracoSuave]

I would just note however that NOTHING indicates these effects stack. No matter how many way you get 'push 1' the net result is still push 1. Thus Unstoppable Advance and Tide of Iron don't particularly stack, but Tide of Iron will certainly trigger Battering Shield, so I would say you push 2 and advance 1 square into the square vacated by the opponent. This is a general pattern in 4e, if have X of something and you then get Y of that thing, you have the better of X or Y. In order for things to stack they have to be expressed in terms of adding to something, such as the way bonuses work where they are always expressed as +N (on top of which the rules specifically state that they stack).

Overall the stacking of things like this, particularly between feats, powers, and other effects, is not entirely well-defined. You can certainly justify either interpretation here. I would discuss it with the DM.

You're right, they don't stack. They're seperate events.

They're not a push 3 in the first case, for example. They're a push 1... shift 1, push 2, shift 1. That's certainly different than a push 3. For example, let's say you're adjacent to an opponent to the south. Your first push could push him north east, and then you move into his square. The next push could push him south east from that spot, which is a legal push from that new position, but certainly an illegal one from the old position.

That's because it's not a stacking issue... it's two separate events, and there's no reason other than 'hrm, lots of pushing going on here' to suggest it's not allowed.

If a fighter wants to push guys where he can't reach them... ALL the power to him.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

You're right, they don't stack. They're seperate events.

They're not a push 3 in the first case, for example. They're a push 1... shift 1, push 2, shift 1. That's certainly different than a push 3. For example, let's say you're adjacent to an opponent to the south. Your first push could push him north east, and then you move into his square. The next push could push him south east from that spot, which is a legal push from that new position, but certainly an illegal one from the old position.

That's because it's not a stacking issue... it's two separate events, and there's no reason other than 'hrm, lots of pushing going on here' to suggest it's not allowed.

If a fighter wants to push guys where he can't reach them... ALL the power to him.

Yes, but notice that the way it works is "When X, then Y", which is entirely satisfied by the first push.

 

[DracoSuave]

Yes, but notice that the way it works is "When X, then Y", which is entirely satisfied by the first push.

Notice, it's When X, do Y, not When X, If Y isn't already happening, do Y.

Notice the difference between Unstoppable Advance, and Hammer Rhythm, which explicitly states it does not do Y if Y is already happening from something else.

For the stance not to push, there must be something that states that it does not push.

 

[PierceSG]

Hmmm, so assuming those feats or powers that doesn't indicate they add on to an existing effect, does indeed not stack, am I safe to assume that the following below will stack just fine?


Hammering Iron (feat) or Tide of Iron (at-will)
Battering Shield (feat)
Blundgeon Expertise (feat)
Knockback Warhammer (magical weapon I supposed?)

 

[keterys]

One thing of note, if you do have three separate push 1s... that a dwarf ignores the whole thing.