Reinventing Roleplaying Games

[SSquirrel]

The trouble is, most folks don't know there are other types of game out there. To them a game is something you win or lose, and this includes many already a part of the hobby. What I want to do is to get people to see what we do as a hobby. That is, we make a hobby out of catching villains, beating monsters, and grabbing loot in a make-believe place. Our hobby is imaginary adventures in imaginary lands. And it's fun. What an RPG (roleplaying guide) does is give us the tools to carry this off successfully. The Mythus hobby (for example) is but one in the greater RPH.

Right. I read everything up to this and it STILL sounds like you're just spinning a different word to mean the EXACT same thing, just in a more prose filled manner.

People ask us what the heck it is we're doing and we say it's a roleplaying game. They ask us if there's ever a winner and we say no it's like a giant game of pretend but we get to role dice and help decide the storyline as it comes along. They like the shiny dice (EVERYONE likes dice) and ask to play as it sounds intriguing.

This is how a LOT of people have joined groups I've played in in the past. RPG (game) books CURRENTLY give us all the information we need to carryout whatever plans we want. Most of them also state that these are not rules but guidelines, just like you want.

Has anyone else seen any dangerous windmills? My lance is getting rusty. Sancho Panza! Get back here!!

Hagen

 

[d4]

All?

yes, all.

here's what you said: "A game is what you play. A hobby is what you make out of playing the game."

so a game is the instructions, the guidelines, that are provided. the activity you perform when using them is the hobby. so anyone who is actively playing the game is partaking in the hobby.

so yes, i believe that everyone who is playing a role-playing game is part of the role-playing hobby using the definitions you provided yourself.

How about roleplaying stuff? Here's the town, here's the people, this is what the people do in town. Here's what some people plan on doing in town. Can you spot the plothooks? How would you get the players involved?

Is that what you mean?

are you saying that's a good example of what needs to be added, or an example of how current RPGs fail?

if you think that's what's missing, i'd have to say that most RPGs already do provide that kind of stuff. if you think that's not enough, what more do you want to see?

 

[Maggan]

This would end in confusion

Sorry to sound crass, but that's treating the symptom, not the disease.

Not that I think there's anything wrong with the games being called roleplaying games.

Let's look at a nongamer. He is slightly interester in checking this D&D thing out, since he heard it to be fun.

What is he most likely to pick up?

A roleplaying hobby?

Or a roleplaying game?

Is he more likely to pick up something that implies that his whole life will revolve around it, and that it will become his new hobby, with all that entails?

Or is he more likely to pick up a game for fun, try it out, and maybe become so interested that he invests time into it, thus aquiring a new hobby?

If you rename "roleplaying game" to "roleplaying hobby" you have suddenly in one fell blow raised the barrier to entry manyfold.

Most often people grow into hobbies, they don't suddenly decide to aquire one. And for someone to get into a hobby they must identify with the activities that goes on within the hobby, as well as the people that partake in said hobby.

As far as I can tell, most people see us as nerds and geeks. And therefore would shun being pulled into the "roleplaying hobby", whereas they might want to try a "roleplaying game" to see what the heck we're up to.

So I don't see your solution doing anything to change that situation.

Cheers!

Maggan

 

[d4]

that's a good point, Maggan. calling it a "hobby" does make it sound like it requires a lot more effort on the part of the person involved than calling it a "game."

and i would imagine that level of involvement would scare off a lot of people who might otherwise be interested.

 

[mythusmage]

I'm not sure that "Hobbies" are inherantly any more attractive than "Games" to the vast majority of people. After all, hobby shops are where you buy model trains and balsa wood planes.

I don't think "Hobby" is any more devoid of packed connotation than the world "Game." And I don't think it's defacto better.

But last night we played a game without stats or dice. *shrug*

joe b.

Try looking at it this way, a hobby is something you like doing, and are willing to invest time and money into. Carried to an extreme it becomes an obsession. With no emotional investment it is a mere pastime.

Now, while 'hobby' may not be better than 'game' as a word, it is my contention that is a better term to describe this 'pastime' we're involved in. In addition, 'game' to most carries connotations and implications that 'hobby' does not. You win games, you don't win hobbies. Your hobby may have competitions and meets you could win or lose, but as a hobby participation in it does not require competition, or rules dictating fairness, competition balance, or anything one finds in the traditional game.

"Last night we had a session without stats or dice." What images does that wording raise?

 

[mythusmage]

yes, all.

here's what you said: "A game is what you play. A hobby is what you make out of playing the game."

so a game is the instructions, the guidelines, that are provided. the activity you perform when using them is the hobby. so anyone who is actively playing the game is partaking in the hobby.

so yes, i believe that everyone who is playing a role-playing game is part of the role-playing hobby using the definitions you provided yourself.


are you saying that's a good example of what needs to be added, or an example of how current RPGs fail?

if you think that's what's missing, i'd have to say that most RPGs already do provide that kind of stuff. if you think that's not enough, what more do you want to see?

What do I want to see? The recognition that we are not engaged in what most see as a game. That is, a competitive pastime. While it can be considered a game according to a number of definitions of the word, that is not how people at large see games, and so calling it a game—when it is not, according to the popular understanding—ends up confusing people.

Along with this material that focuses on the strength of the RPH, instead of stuff that makes it more gamelike. I want to see adventures and not scenarios, epics and not campaigns. How about meetings instead of encounters? Let's drop this game stuff and get into adventuring. Death to game boards, let's get back to using rulers!

Now, do the instructions, the guidelines have to be a game? Do we need rules qua rules when a set of well written mechanics would do the job as well, if not better?

 

[d4]

Now, while 'hobby' may not be better than 'game' as a word, it is my contention that is a better term to describe this 'pastime' we're involved in.

perhaps, but that doesn't mean calling it a hobby instead of a game is going to make it more attractive to most people.

In addition, 'game' to most carries connotations and implications that 'hobby' does not. You win games, you don't win hobbies. Your hobby may have competitions and meets you could win or lose, but as a hobby participation in it does not require competition, or rules dictating fairness, competition balance, or anything one finds in the traditional game.

but as has been said before, most people like competition. and who doesn't like fairness? if you tell me this "hobby" isn't necessarily fair to everyone involved, then i don't want to be a part of it.

and hobby has its own set of negative connotations and implications. like it's going to cost a lot of money and suck up most of your free time. and if you don't spend a lot of money and time on it, you're not going to get much out of it.

whereas a game is something you and your friends can do on a sunday afternoon to have fun.

described that way, which sounds more attractive to the average person? hobby or game?

 

[d4]

Along with this material that focuses on the strength of the RPH, instead of stuff that makes it more gamelike. I want to see adventures and not scenarios, epics and not campaigns. How about meetings instead of encounters? Let's drop this game stuff and get into adventuring. Death to game boards, let's get back to using rulers!

this just sounds like renaming to me. it doesn't sound like anything different from what we already have.

Now, do the instructions, the guidelines have to be a game? Do we need rules qua rules when a set of well written mechanics would do the job as well, if not better?

how do you propose to have a "set of well written mechanics" that is not a game?

and secondly, i thought that's what we already had with numerous well-written RPGs that are already on the market.

 

[mythusmage]

Right. I read everything up to this and it STILL sounds like you're just spinning a different word to mean the EXACT same thing, just in a more prose filled manner.

Does it now?

People ask us what the heck it is we're doing and we say it's a roleplaying game. They ask us if there's ever a winner and we say no it's like a giant game of pretend but we get to role dice and help decide the storyline as it comes along. They like the shiny dice (EVERYONE likes dice) and ask to play as it sounds intriguing.

This is how a LOT of people have joined groups I've played in in the past. RPG (game) books CURRENTLY give us all the information we need to carryout whatever plans we want. Most of them also state that these are not rules but guidelines, just like you want.

Have you considered the possibility that more people would be interested if what we did was presented differently?

Has anyone else seen any dangerous windmills? My lance is getting rusty. Sancho Panza! Get back here!!

Hagen

If you're not going to maintain your weapons...

BTW, never try approaching a windmill in a windstorm. It hurts. (Getting whacked by a large, moving object. Do the math.)

 

[FireLance]

Thinking about the whole Hobby vs Game paradigm. Consider baseball, basketball, football, wrestling, whatever. Think of the spectators. They may play the game themselves, but when they watch a game played by someone else, they are participating in a hobby, if not a game.

Can we turn role-playing into a spectator sport? Why not? Imagine a theater where the "actors" play their characters and the director is the DM. There would be no set script, but the characters would evolve night after night, week after week. It would be like watching a live action soap opera.

Go one step further. Can we have reality gaming? An alternate reality TV show, maybe?