Rejigging caster level

[hong]

One of the commonly heard gripes about multiclassing spellcaster classes is that their caster level gets screwed. A couple of levels of fighter or rogue means you're 1 spell level behind, and you're dealing (or healing) less damage, your buffups have reduced duration, etc. This gets worse the more non-caster levels you take.

What would happen if you used _character_ level instead of _class_ level for the purpose of determining level-dependent effects of spells? Thus, for example, a level 6/6 fighter/cleric would still be limited to 3rd level cleric spells, but would cast them as a 12th level caster. Ditto a 6/6 rogue/sorcerer, or whatever. A 6/6 cleric/wizard would have access to 3rd level cleric and 3rd level wizard spells, but would cast them all as if 12th level.

 

[Weeble]

they would be overpowered.

 

[Lily Inverse]

Ehh....I'm not too sure. Remember that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Although I might limit this stacking to the number of levels in your highest caster class so that a 6/3 Fighter/Wizard casts spells as sixth level, as would a 9/3 Fighter/Wizard.

 

[hong]

Remember that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Err... not sure what you mean.

Although I might limit this stacking to the number of levels in your highest caster class so that a 6/3 Fighter/Wizard casts spells as sixth level, as would a 9/3 Fighter/Wizard.

Technically, a fighter doesn't have a caster level, being a non-spellcasting class. But assuming you just mean highest class level, you get into knots trying to explain why magic ability should be tied to a mundane class.

As for whether it's overpowered: this rule change powers up multiclassed spellcasters, yes. However, as I said, they tend to be weak in the first place, so this would just end up putting them back on par. In theory, anyway.

 

[krbrunn]

In my opinion, the power lost in multiclassing is the price to pay to be more diverse.

And what about a fighter that mulit classes into a wizard? The characters BAB would be less now as well, making him a weaker fighter. Would you let that fighter/wiz take the fighters BAB to make her stronger?

Basically readjusting the casters level to the characters level is making the character into a fighter who can cast spells like a wizard.... I don't know about most of you people, but I think that this is kind of powerful.

That's just my 2 cents.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Hong, I think this is quite a reasonable suggestion. After all, fighters rely on BAB and a fighter who multiclasses as a wizard still gets a BAB improvement (even though its not much )

I wonder how game breaking it would be if the Sor6/Ftr6 could caste haste for 12r instead of 6r? If his magic missile created 6(?) instead of 3(?) missiles.

I agree that giving up spellcaster levels in terms of more spells known and (crucially) higher level spells is perhaps a big enough penalty to the multiclass caster.

Would there be a problem when the caster level is taken later in the game though? A 5th level rogue who takes a level of wizard or sorcerer... and then gets to cast his spells as if 6th level in terms of duration and effects? I guess this is where there is most potential for abuse.

Cheers

 

[krbrunn]

As I reread this thread, I can see that I am a moron and didn't fully understand what you said.

It's not as bad as I thought initially, and in fact I kind of like it now. Though maybe making it 1/2 character level for determing spell effects may make it a little more reasonable.

 

[00]

Why not use skill to determin caster level?

Personaly with my system.. (see link in thread below)

http://test.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15542

I use Knowledge(Arcana), Knowledge(religion), or Knowledge(Nature) to determin the effective caster level for those respective classes. This allows Paladin/Clerics & Ranger/Druids to multiclass without suffering from a low caster level. Other classes can still improve the skill (and thus the caster level) but at the cost of a cross class skill.

 

[Corwyn]

I house ruled somthing similar in my campaing that states that casterlevels of different classes sorcerer/wizard , wizard/cleric all stack.
Thus a 3 level wizard / 4 level cleric cast at 7th.

Bards, paladins and rangers use half classlevels for their casterlevel.
Thus a bard 4 / sorcerer 3 cast at 5th

But non caster levels don't add.

 

[Xarlen]

Hm. I have to agree with some of the complaints. Though multi-classing hurts spellcaster classes. But I don't think that it would Break a character to allow them to multi-class into another class, and raise their Caster level for damage/durations/etc. It's sort've like the Domains that allow casters to cast certain spells as +1 Caster level.

So how's this. The character must have their Primary (most levels) in the spellcaster level. Thus a Wizard6/Fighter1 be a caster level 7, but a Fighter6/Wizard 1 is not.

This would reflect that the spellcaster has spent a lot of focus and upping his power slowly, even while gaining the level of Fighter, BUT a Fighter suddenly taking the transition into a wizard wouldn't just Jump in power.