Pathfinder 2E Release Day Second Edition Amazon Sales Rank

[BryonD]

I've been playing longer than most of the people on the boards have been alive so.... no. I didn't say it wasn't easy, I was saying it is baked in. Reskinning fluff is easy for someone with experience. Not so much for new people. Thus things default to Golarion. It is baked in. You're experiences are great and all and I am not disagreeing 100% but Golarion is definitely more ingrained in PF than Greyhawk was in D&D. D&D had a few references here and there but by putting the gazetteer in there they set up their world as a default setting and new people will use that. Then of course the expansion products are often designed with the world they created in mind. Again, easy to reskin and use otherwise but the default throughout the book is reference to their setting, their characters etc. With D&D there is a stronger encouragement of your world and the worlds of D&D in the core book from multiple pantheons and fluff detail of items or examples, it shows a myriad of campaign settings and ideas can be used with the game. Hell P2 has more about the world of Golarion than most other world specific RPGs have about their default settings.

This is all just so much handwaving.
The point is 100% "can and do people use PF to play without the default setting?" The answer is "yes, easily".
It was claimed that this was important to the sales. It is not important to the sales.
You seem to be completely agreeing with that point and then you seem to be going on with a smokescreen of words that talk about irrellevent points.

My claim is that PF2 can be easily reskinned and whether or not a given player chooses that route is meaningless compared to their opinion of the mechanics.
If you disagree, make that case. Or, don't make that case, but recognize that you have not made it.

Also it's ok to disagree with people without being a jerk and passive aggressiveness.

I'd be more than happy to have a facts and logic conversation with you.
You say things that have no basis in fact and then when I challenge them you just restate them or change the subject.

I've asked you a ton of questions that you keep ignoring.
If you are going to state your opinions as fact, it is fair game to challenge you on it.
If you are going to make proclamations or predictions without showing data or a reasonable series of cause and effect that leads to the conclusion, then it is fair game to ask you to fill in those gaps.

Pretty please, fill in the gaps for me.

 

[darjr]

Hmmm the paper back PF1 core book is at 16thousand + sales rank at Amazon. That’s amazing for just about any RPG publisher but I think it’s a fraction of the PF2 sales.

 

[teitan]

A bunch of demanda pandas. I don't have to say anything but I did make a case for it being baked in, you just choose not to see it and continue to act passive aggressively while also expecting people to live up to your standards which seem to imply that discussion forums are some sort of peer review journal. I also conceded it's easy to just reskin Golarion specific elements to generic fantasy because mechanics aren't totally hardcoded to setting assumptions. It's fluff. MY argument is from the stand point of new people not grognards. A lot of people don't see these things as toolkits when they start out like old timers do because we came up in the era of 1e and especially 2e where they tried to smash AD&D into a generic fantasy game that could be used for a multitude of settings and ideas and provided us with 800 sourcebooks to that effect including different eras, Mad Max style worlds etc. but the standard of 3e was that D&D itself was it's own genre, with its own assumptions. D&D redefined generic fantasy rather than the other way around. P2 similarly works on the same default assumptions based on what worked and what didn't in the past and also fully embraces D&D as genre with Golarion as generic D&D world C (Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk and Golarion).

I think you would be better served on 4Chan than waving that thing around on here. Over there they like to indulge in petty arguments about things. Personally I'd rather have fun and thoughtful interactions than passive aggressive trolls telling me what I am supposed to do and demanding answers. When I used to hang out on this site before people weren't quite like you are... sad that it seems to be more and more the standard.

 

[Green Onceler]

I agree completely.

But the comment I replied to was that people were not buying PF2 because they were buying cheaper PF1 stuff which they didn't already have. Which would mean the core book.
I think my reply gets caught up in the lack of logic in the context it replies to.

Yes, understood. Sorry, my comment ended up slightly irrelevant as I decided to cut my final sentence where I noted my three PF1 pocket edition purchases contrasted with zero products being purchased for the new system.

A lot of the online negativity around PF2 makes me cringe, tbh. I didn't want to seem to be aligning myself with the more outspoken members of that community.

 

[Mistwell]

Hmmm the paper back PF1 core book is at 16thousand + sales rank at Amazon. That’s amazing for just about any RPG publisher but I think it’s a fraction of the PF2 sales.

That's about 9 to 10 books sold a day. It's selling for about $17. So let's say they make about 50% profit at $8.50 each sale. That's about $80 a day. So about enough to sustain one employee at minimum wage, maybe (depending on the cost of their overhead, worker's comp, payroll taxes, etc.).

 

[Aldarc]

That's about 9 to 10 books sold a day. It's selling for about $17. So let's say they make about 50% profit at $8.50 each sale. That's about $80 a day. So about enough to sustain one employee at minimum wage, maybe (depending on the cost of their overhead, worker's comp, payroll taxes, etc.).

Or enough to pay for ten adjunct professors.

 

[BryonD]

I did make a case for it being baked in, you just choose not to see it

OK, so you made a doubly irrelevant case. Good deal.
It is irrelevant because I was not disputing that it was baked in, I was disputing that it was no more than other editions of D&D. It is irrelevant because whether or not it is baked in, all have agreed that it is trivial to reskin and meaningless to the real topic at hand.

and continue to act passive aggressively while also expecting people to live up to your standards which seem to imply that discussion forums are some sort of peer review journal.

There is a lot of room between peer review journal and basic not confusing opinion for fact and/or using simple logical cause and effect arguments.

I also conceded it's easy to just reskin Golarion specific elements to generic fantasy because mechanics aren't totally hardcoded to setting assumptions. It's fluff. MY argument is from the stand point of new people not grognards. A lot of people don't see these things as toolkits when they start out like old timers do because we came up in the era of 1e and especially 2e where they tried to smash AD&D into a generic fantasy game that could be used for a multitude of settings and ideas and provided us with 800 sourcebooks to that effect including different eras, Mad Max style worlds etc. but the standard of 3e was that D&D itself was it's own genre, with its own assumptions. D&D redefined generic fantasy rather than the other way around. P2 similarly works on the same default assumptions based on what worked and what didn't in the past and also fully embraces D&D as genre with Golarion as generic D&D world C (Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk and Golarion).

OK, I dont really agree with this. But what is your point here relative to sales?

I think you would be better served on 4Chan than waving that thing around on here. Over there they like to indulge in petty arguments about things. Personally I'd rather have fun and thoughtful interactions than passive aggressive trolls telling me what I am supposed to do and demanding answers. When I used to hang out on this site before people weren't quite like you are... sad that it seems to be more and more the standard.

Dude, this is a thread ABOUT SALES.
IMO it is you who is trolling by saying things that don't stand up to simple inspection and then complaining that everyone else should let you muddy the conversation with misinformation.

 

[BryonD]

Hmmm the paper back PF1 core book is at 16thousand + sales rank at Amazon. That’s amazing for just about any RPG publisher but I think it’s a fraction of the PF2 sales.

Agreed. Did not mean to imply that those sales were taking away or showing a competition.
If anything this adds to my point that those people are not going to suddenly create a groundswell of future sales.

It is a really nice product option. But the decline of PF1E is still reality regardless of how anyone feels about PF2E.

 

[Umbran]

A bunch of demanda pandas.

Mod Note:

If you find a post or train of thought is not worthy of respect, you are probably better off not dignifying it with a response.

If you find people not worthy of respect, such that you are, say, tempted to call them names, you are very much better off not responding to them, because posting disrespectfully will get you the hairy eyeball from moderators.

Folks, treat each other well. That isn't a big ask.

 

[JFranklin3000]

The problem we really have is we have no idea other then through anecdotal evidence how PF2 is doing. 5e seems to be booming so the fact that PF2 is sitting where it is on Amazon seems like a good place to be (but could be terrible since no real numbers). For 5e sales it seems the majority is going to be Amazon and game stores. For PF2 we have this black hole of Paizo.com which seems an important piece.
I still think people forget that 4e sold very well, even though I didn't like it, well enough for any RPG publisher to do well with the sales. The problem was WotC was trying to hit a Hasbro sales number. The fact that Paizo ever passed them in sales is amazing, but has as much to do with WotC announcing the end of 4e as what Paizo was doing.