Pathfinder 2E Release Day Second Edition Amazon Sales Rank

[BryonD]

The problem we really have is we have no idea other then through anecdotal evidence how PF2 is doing. 5e seems to be booming so the fact that PF2 is sitting where it is on Amazon seems like a good place to be (but could be terrible since no real numbers). For 5e sales it seems the majority is going to be Amazon and game stores. For PF2 we have this black hole of Paizo.com which seems an important piece.
I still think people forget that 4e sold very well, even though I didn't like it, well enough for any RPG publisher to do well with the sales. The problem was WotC was trying to hit a Hasbro sales number. The fact that Paizo ever passed them in sales is amazing, but has as much to do with WotC announcing the end of 4e as what Paizo was doing.

I think your point has been accounted for above in this thread. I completely understand if you haven't felt the need to go back and read everything. ( ). But it is addressed.

Though I would strongly challenge your statements with regard to 4E. It sold HUGELY well out of the gate. But it dropped off hard and Paizo was on top long before 5E was announced.

 

[darjr]

5e is an outlier. So much so that WotC was stunned by initial sales. It quickly sold out at Amazon and other outlets so they rushed a second print and then a third, I think each time doubling the print run. I believe they cancelled a print run of another book to get even more printed.

 

[Parmandur]

As a fan, I'm way more interested in how the game will impact the overall gaming community for the long(ish) term. How easy will it be to find a game two years from now?

The tea leaves are not positive in that direction.

 

[Mistwell]

The problem we really have is we have no idea other then through anecdotal evidence how PF2 is doing. 5e seems to be booming so the fact that PF2 is sitting where it is on Amazon seems like a good place to be (but could be terrible since no real numbers). For 5e sales it seems the majority is going to be Amazon and game stores. For PF2 we have this black hole of Paizo.com which seems an important piece.

It's not a black hole. When someone gets a subscription from Paizo to their Pathfinder stuff, they are added as a user subscriber on their message board in an area. It's public information. And that number has consistently shown for years now the following: 1) it goes up as Amazon sales go up, and 2) it's a fraction of their Amazon sales.

So Amazon seems to be a genuinely fair metric for a very meaningful portion of Pathfinder sales, and good sales at Amazon tends to mean good sales internally for them, while bad sales at Amazon tends to mean bad sales internally for them.

 

[Parmandur]

It's not a black hole. When someone gets a subscription from Paizo to their Pathfinder stuff, they are added as a user subscriber on their message board in an area. It's public information. And that number has consistently shown for years now the following: 1) it goes up as Amazon sales go up, and 2) it's a fraction of their Amazon sales.

So Amazon seems to be a genuinely fair metric for a very meaningful portion of Pathfinder sales, and good sales at Amazon tends to mean good sales internally for them, while bad sales at Amazon tends to mean bad sales internally for them.

There are other bad indicators, such as the Roll20 numbers. Signs are not great.

 

[generic]

There are other bad indicators, such as the Roll20 numbers. Signs are not great.

Paizo has damaged itself as a company. They released a product which not every PF1 player would purchase, and which is unlikely to peel away 5E players by virtue of how relatively unknown and distinct it is when compared to 5E.

Let us not forget that PF1 rose to fame as a result of its ties to 3E, not through the sheer virtue of its game design. Perhaps, if PF2 had been modeled after 5E, with alterations, it would have been able to peel away a greater number of 5E players.

It's too late for Paizo to go back. They may have doomed themselves as a company. If PF2 doesn't sell well, I doubt that Starfinder will be enough for them to survive as an IP.

 

[Mistwell]

Paizo has damaged itself as a company. They released a product which not every PF1 player would purchase, and which is unlikely to peel away 5E players by virtue of how relatively unknown and distinct it is when compared to 5E.

Let us not forget that PF1 rose to fame as a result of its ties to 3E, not through the sheer virtue of its game design. Perhaps, if PF2 had been modeled after 5E, with alterations, it would have been able to peel away a greater number of 5E players.

It's too late for Paizo to go back. They may have doomed themselves as a company. If PF2 doesn't sell well, I doubt that Starfinder will be enough for them to survive as an IP.

I think that's an exaggeration. I think Paizo will be fine. I don't think PF2 is doing what they anticipated or hoped it would do, but I also don't think it's doing that bad. I don't think it's doing worse than PF1 was doing before they announced it (though I am still unsure).

 

[Parmandur]

Paizo has damaged itself as a company. They released a product which not every PF1 player would purchase, and which is unlikely to peel away 5E players by virtue of how relatively unknown and distinct it is when compared to 5E.

Let us not forget that PF1 rose to fame as a result of its ties to 3E, not through the sheer virtue of its game design. Perhaps, if PF2 had been modeled after 5E, with alterations, it would have been able to peel away a greater number of 5E players.

It's too late for Paizo to go back. They may have doomed themselves as a company. If PF2 doesn't sell well, I doubt that Starfinder will be enough for them to survive as an IP.

Actually, as a company, I am given to understand the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game has been their financial bread and butter for a while. The company will be fine.

 

[JFranklin3000]

It's not a black hole. When someone gets a subscription from Paizo to their Pathfinder stuff, they are added as a user subscriber on their message board in an area. It's public information. And that number has consistently shown for years now the following: 1) it goes up as Amazon sales go up, and 2) it's a fraction of their Amazon sales.

So Amazon seems to be a genuinely fair metric for a very meaningful portion of Pathfinder sales, and good sales at Amazon tends to mean good sales internally for them, while bad sales at Amazon tends to mean bad sales internally for them.

Is there a way to count that somehow? I would be curious to know what those numbers looked like.

 

[JFranklin3000]

There are other bad indicators, such as the Roll20 numbers. Signs are not great.

Are there other Roll 20 numbers then the Q3 report?