Pathfinder 2E Release Day Second Edition Amazon Sales Rank

[darjr]

And remember in that graph is the time frame when they surpassed WotC and 4e.

DANG! I soooo wish I’d grabbed a graph of 4e. Though the players handbook might have been a bad proxy for 4es continued success or lack of it considering it was quickly obsolete, unlike other players handbooks or the pathfinder core book.

 

[Teemu]

Thing is, at the moment with just the core book and bestiary out, one of PF2's strongest advantages when compared to 5e -- the customization of PCs -- isn't as big of a selling point as it could be. There's just not enough material available to really emphasize the vast array of options the rules system provides. However, once PF2 gets a couple of player options books out, a couple of bestiaries, and a full AP or two (and probably some updates to the core rules), I can see it becoming more attractive when compared to the industry leader. If Paizo is able to support the product line further, it's possible that PF2 gains momentum and popularity.

 

[Acolyte of Zothique]

I have no meaningful way of knowing what you are looking for, but I can speak to some of the things that are important to me:

• Tighter math
• Better and More Accurate GM Tools including better GM guidance with plentiful examples through the book on how to use the game
• Modular Design (Characters and Systems). The Game Mastery Guide is going to go into depth about how systems are built, how to the hack the game, and provide examples like removing level from proficiency with detailed analysis on how that affects the game.
• Far better support for B/X style dungeon and wilderness exploration
• Spells that are rewritten to emphasize risk and drama
• A more fluid and intuitive action economy
• The monsters are so much more fun. So much! They really did their best to make every monster feel unique and mechanics were built primarily based on the feel of the monster. Like oozes have massive amounts of hit points, but low AC, are immune to critical hits and precision damage. It's like you are slowly swiping away at the slime as it congeals back together.
• The rarity system provides a nice way to communicate what is and is not available for play. Many spells like Teleport, Scry, Detect Alignment, and Mindblank are Uncommon by default meaning to get access to them they must be earned in play or taken only with GM approval.
• Magic items are a lot more fun than in Fifth Edition. This will be especially true when the GMG provides us with artifacts, intelligent items, cursed items, and relics.
• No more bloated hit points on monsters. Generally monsters have similar numbers to PCs of their level.
• No more abstract resources on martial characters. No more daily rages. No more bardic inspiration. No more second wind. No more action surge.
• No Bounded Accuracy. There will be a hack if you want it, but I very much do not want it.

Well, I think all the above points are purely subjective but there's nothing wrong with that. For me, the points mentioned here are either not selling points to me; don't appeal to me; or I don't actually recognise things stated as problem issues to be such.
I'm actually open to the idea of another class and level based fantasy RPG but I really don't feel PF2E is that game. Plus, in my group nobody is interested in PF2E and all the newbies I encounter want to play 5e. That's a major hurdle.

 

[Acolyte of Zothique]

Thing is, at the moment with just the core book and bestiary out, one of PF2's strongest advantages when compared to 5e -- the customization of PCs -- isn't as big of a selling point as it could be. There's just not enough material available to really emphasize the vast array of options the rules system provides. However, once PF2 gets a couple of player options books out, a couple of bestiaries, and a full AP or two (and probably some updates to the core rules), I can see it becoming more attractive when compared to the industry leader. If Paizo is able to support the product line further, it's possible that PF2 gains momentum and popularity.

This description here is one reason why 5e is likely to always be more popular to new players - they only need the 5e PHB and, maybe, Xanathar's Guide. If you put out a whole load of different books that are 'essential' then you've just placed a huge barrier to entry to new players. It's not...good. Same goes for new DMs, in fact it's probably worse for them.

I get the strong feeling PF2E is catering to existing players but you need to attract new blood; a wall of books isn't going to be a major incentive for most people and can be downright confusing. It gets worse if you later release important errata that covers multiple books.

Yes, you could just say ' use the SRD' but I've never actually met anyone who does that.

 

[darjr]

It’s better than that. They only need the essentials box, really. The Starter box and the free basic online used to be enough as well.

And for AL they only need the free Basic online.

 

[darjr]

Also a significantly different rules set isn’t great either. Weather PF2 is significantly different enough to cause issues is subjective, but it can’t help.

 

[Morrus]

If you use the optional rules in the 5e DMG you can make D&D5e as brutal and bloody as you want. I know this for a fact as I've done exactly this for my Ravenloft campaign which is coming up to it's 2 year anniversary. Default 5e is heroic fantasy; the rules are in place to make it as gritty and dark as you want.

So, what is the selling point of Pathfinder2e beyond this - bearing in mind that extra crunchy rules and more character customisation over 5e is not a selling plus for me?

Those are the selling points of it. So it's not the game for you.

It's not more brutal and bloody, if that's what you're after. It's high fantasy, like D&D is.

 

[Acolyte of Zothique]

Those are the selling points of it. So it's not the game for you.

It's not more brutal and bloody, if that's what you're after. It's high fantasy, like D&D is.

Well, I used the dials provided in the 5e DMG to 'tune' my game towards the sensibilities of Ravenloft. I like my high fantasy as well. If I really want bloody and brutal I turn to Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.

 

[Campbell]

Those are the selling points of it. So it's not the game for you.

It's not more brutal and bloody, if that's what you're after. It's high fantasy, like D&D is.

They might be what sold you on it. They are not what sold me on it.

What sold me was the Exploration mechanics, monster design, high degree of correspondence to the fiction in the mechanics, increased variability in spells, and combat model.

I did not mean to oversell the lethality. It broadly reminds me of the anime Berserk! It's definitely on the D&D spectrum, but I feel its closer to the B/X levels I prefer instead of the 4e/5e default levels. Definitely not Warhammer Fantasy though.

 

[S'mon]

With PF2 corebook currently at #18 in Fantasy Gaming, in between #17 Curse of Strahd & #19 Spellbook Cards: Arcane, and D&D occupying spots 1-17, I doubt WoTC are losing too much sleep over the New Pathfinder Threat as yet.