Pathfinder 2E Release Day Second Edition Amazon Sales Rank

[JFranklin3000]

Funny thing, the only PF1 books I bought were some of the bestiarys, I got the CRB and Bestiary in PF2e and I am thinking about the GMG, but it is seem less likely as the days go by. If it had come out shortly after the release of the CRB I probably would have snatched it up, but my interesting in running a PF2e game has waned.

I am looking forward to the optional rules in the GMG. I have been building a set of one shots for this weekend at level 1 and 20 and it is looking pretty cool. But we will see how it goes.

 

[kayman]

Amazon Best Sellers: Best Fantasy Gaming

Discover the best books in Amazon Best Sellers. Find the top 100 most popular Amazon books.

www.amazon.com

Best Sellers in Fantasy Gaming - PF2 - 19°

 

[wakedown]

I'm not sure what the infatuation is with Amazon sales rank for a niche category - there's a steep decay for daily units where position #15+ could be going days without a single unit sale in the US as long as there was a steady but low demand for the product.

Here's a rough layman explanation of the sales rank: Sales Rank Algo

There's a a pair of Kindle books at #9 and #12 in Fantasy Gaming at the moment, both released in the 45-60 day range. Small authors usually have no issue sharing their unit sales, but roughly to sustain a Top 10ish position in this category 45+ days after a release you're looking at 0-5 units a day with wild swings, sometimes multiple days in a row with zero sales.

You're better off using the overall, non-categorical rankings to tease out relative popularity. You can find books with limited known print runs (like ~2500 copies) in Amazon's Top 20,000.

If you want to really tease out PF2 success (are GMs purchasing the materials to run it), I'd say watch the overall rank of the Bestiary and see if it operates in the range where it's at least breaking 10+ copies sold per week.

 

[teitan]

I think PF2 will be a slow burn, many people will move to PF2 searching for a game that offer more options and a system who facilitate the narrative without the fatal flaws of previous editions.

I’ve been saying the same thing. Once the pocket book series does out and especially if they launch pocket books for P2, I think it will begin to take off for real. People will inevitably start looking for an alternative to the D&D experience. Paizo is in a good spot for that to be P2 or Starfinder but it could, like Vampire back in the day, be something out of left field.

 

[teitan]

Interestingly the PF1 CRB is still #4 in Pathfinder books and the PF2 bestiary is #6

for the much lower price point I expect the pocket editions will Undercut sales of P2. I don’t think it was a good strategy to introduce them so close to P2’s announcement. While it’s more money for Paizo it gives the impression of failure.

 

[zztong]

I was messing around with Roll20 -- my PF1 games uses it in place of battle mats and miniatures even though all but one of the players is present in the same room. (Being computerized is nice; dynamic lighting is cool.)

Anyways, I remembered they had a "find a game" feature. So I looked for PF1 and PF2 games. I counted manually, so I might be off by one or two, but PF1 had 33 games listed and PF2 had 11 games listed.

I'm not suggesting this is an indicator of sales. Or, I guess I'm saying I don't know if it is, or not. I just don't know enough about the habits of Roll20 folks and games that start up between strangers. It could also be that there are many more PF2 games that just aren't looking for players.

 

[Parmandur]

I was messing around with Roll20 -- my PF1 games uses it in place of battle mats and miniatures even though all but one of the players is present in the same room. (Being computerized is nice; dynamic lighting is cool.)

Anyways, I remembered they had a "find a game" feature. So I looked for PF1 and PF2 games. I counted manually, so I might be off by one or two, but PF1 had 33 games listed and PF2 had 11 games listed.

I'm not suggesting this is an indicator of sales. Or, I guess I'm saying I don't know if it is, or not. I just don't know enough about the habits of Roll20 folks and games that start up between strangers. It could also be that there are many more PF2 games that just aren't looking for players.

Based on their last Quarterly numbers, PF1 was being played ten times more than PF2. Probably evened out somewhat over time, but might not have caught up. It might never catch up.

 

[BryonD]

I’ve been saying the same thing. Once the pocket book series does out and especially if they launch pocket books for P2, I think it will begin to take off for real. People will inevitably start looking for an alternative to the D&D experience. Paizo is in a good spot for that to be P2 or Starfinder but it could, like Vampire back in the day, be something out of left field.

Why would it grow later? Certainly unknown brands that make it have an awareness arc. But Pathfinder is a completely well-known brand. Even other big names with a loyal fanbase (say Warhammer FRPG) decline after six months to a year. They continue to enjoy support from their core fans. It isn't collapse (usually), but growth is really rare. 5E is a major outlier. And it is not growing by stealing pie, it is growing by making the pie much larger.

Which certainly questions your assumption about people migrating from 5E to PF2E. I'm a great example of someone who left 5E. It happens most certainly. But I don't see any basis for assuming that PF2E will be a beacon.

Also, I have not heard anything really recent, but Paizo said they would produce the 1E stuff as long as it was selling.

But I don't think that matters either.

for the much lower price point I expect the pocket editions will Undercut sales of P2. I don’t think it was a good strategy to introduce them so close to P2’s announcement. While it’s more money for Paizo it gives the impression of failure.

This seems to suggest that people are walking into a store and with little to no prior consideration buying the cheaper of the two games. Setting aside the basic marketing psychology that people are drawn to the "upgraded newer model", there is just no evidence that uniformed hobby entrants are moving the needle for any Pathfinder brand title at this time. 5e is crushing that.

And all THAT aside, if you took every single pocketbook sale and magically transformed it into a PF2E sale, you wouldn't move that needle much either. PF sales have been WAY down for a while. That is why we have PF2E. The market share in terms of tables out there playing is down as well. But sales are down much more because people have the books and don't need anything more. The pocketbooks are great for people like me who want handy and cheap backups.

The bottom line: I'd really like to understand WHY you think there will be growth. The is a lot of love, a lot of hate and a whole lot of "meh". We may not be able to define "a lot" but for each camp they are in the same ballpark. People won't play a game they don't like.

Lastly, it is interesting that you use the phrase "appearance of failure". There is a lot of implication in that statement. To me, I have no idea what Paizo wanted, I am certain that any non-D&D game would kill to be at PF2E levels, and I know that PF2E has not come anywhere near what my expectations for a home run PF2E would have been.

 

[darjr]

Here is one way. I think this is happening to some degree.

The folks looking for something other than 5e will go somewhere. PF 1 and 2 have very loyal fan bases that proselytize and run games. As WotC raises the tide the Paizo boat will pick up sailors.


Er.... the loyal fan base is pretty big by most RPG standards. And many are also busy recruiting and advocating for a PF game.

 

[darjr]

It’s rank at Amazon has recently risen and I think that’s rare for RPGs.

Paizo probably knows this well, but they need to put their chits on their loyal fan base. Delight and thrill them. Find ways to reward them for running public games and spreading the play. Imho for BOTH PF1 and PF2. If they can.