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PF2E Release Day Second Edition Amazon Sales Rank

Retreater

Legend
I personally know only one group of players who are still sticking with PF1, and have stayed with it through 4E, 5E, and now PF2. To them, they are familiar with PF1 and don't want to learn a new system even if it's easier when they complain about the complexity of PF1 (as is the case of 5E), nor do they want to try a system that's likely better balanced even when they complain about the poor balance of PF1 (as is the case of PF2). They do not want to try Starfinder or any other gaming systems, even when they complain that they are tired of fantasy. They do not want to play Gloomhaven, Pandemic, or any other boardgames if the party can't all be there for the regularly scheduled PF1 game.
There are certain PF1 fans who will never play another game. I think this number might even be a majority of Pathfinder players, based on the numbers I've seen with companies selling copies of both PF1 and PF2 modules for comparison.
Let's face it, if 5E didn't pull you away from PF1, I don't think any other fantasy RPG is going to do it either.
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
I find it very sad that pf2 is, by all accounts struggling. In a way it's understandable, as a lot of hardened pf1 gamers were never going to jump onboard, and even if they'd simplified the ruleset I don't think they could compete with the behemoth that is 5e

It's (IMHO) a very good ruleset, that while it has its faults, is very very serviceable and a nice alternative to what's out there, and even if I wasn't interested healthy competition would be good for the industry

Still could go for a fixed 3.5. Whatever PF2 was trying to do just not interested.
 

Green Onceler

Explorer
I personally know only one group of players who are still sticking with PF1, and have stayed with it through 4E, 5E, and now PF2.They do not want to try Starfinder or any other gaming systems, even when they complain that they are tired of fantasy. They do not want to play Gloomhaven, Pandemic, or any other boardgames

That seems an odd approach. Personally, as a hardened PF1 fan, PF2's arrival has broadened my gaming palette. As I'm no longer needing to buy any Pathfinder stuff, I have money to invest in other systems or board games.

I'd rather play 5e than PF2. I don't love either system, but at least it's easy to find players for 5e.
 

Retreater

Legend
That seems an odd approach. Personally, as a hardened PF1 fan, PF2's arrival has broadened my gaming palette. As I'm no longer needing to buy any Pathfinder stuff, I have money to invest in other systems or board games.
This group doesn't buy new products. About half of them purchased the Core Rulebook, while the others just borrow others' copies or look at online sites. They do not purchase splats, bestiaries. The GM will begrudgingly spend money on the PDFs of the Adventure Path he is currently running, which will take around 2 years to complete, and still think he has overspent.
I would believe that many of the fans sticking with PF1 will be satisfied to never have to buy another product, which is reason enough for Paizo to move along to greener pastures.
 

Celtavian

Dragon Lord
This group doesn't buy new products. About half of them purchased the Core Rulebook, while the others just borrow others' copies or look at online sites. They do not purchase splats, bestiaries. The GM will begrudgingly spend money on the PDFs of the Adventure Path he is currently running, which will take around 2 years to complete, and still think he has overspent.
I would believe that many of the fans sticking with PF1 will be satisfied to never have to buy another product, which is reason enough for Paizo to move along to greener pastures.

Paizo had to move to a new edition at some point. I know my group stopped buying books ages ago. We had everything we would ever need to run PF1. The system was beyond mature. It was a rules heavy, complicated system with awful power scaling. I had a lot of fun with it, but burned out on it. In all the years of PF1, I ran one campaign to 21 with Kingmaker and one to about 13 with the horror AP. Other than that, I burned out DMing PF1 around lvl 10 or so.

PF2 is super easy to run to high levels. Much more balanced and usable. I'm surprised the adoption rate isn't higher for DMs looking to spend less time prepping and groups wanting to run to higher level than was easily accomplished in PF1.

Then again no one has the real numbers as to what is going on with PF2. Paizo obviously is making enough to fund three APs, a core rulebook, and an APG with other supplemental materials as well as future projects. So they must not being too terribly bad given the amount of PF2 material they are able to produce and have planned. They don't appear to be looking to kill PF2 because it was an obvious failure. That is a good sign.

I personally enjoy the balance and playability of PF2. It has some clunky, unexplained parts that could use some work, but for the most part it runs smoothly and let's you do a lot of things in combat and out of combat you could not do before with a real tangible game effect like run a business or make money performing or what not. It's allows for greater narrative depth than in the past with clear simple rules for adjudicating doing so, even if you don't gain any extra power from the activity.
 

JmanTheDM

Explorer
[Anecdote incoming]

Predominately 5e GM here. Occasional 5e player. Have nearly switched all my fantasy GM'ing over to PF2e. GM'ing 2 different campaigns with 2 different groups. Only keeping Rappan Athuk in 5e (though its on Hiatus), but would LOVE to switch that over as well - just feel that would be too much work on my part. Never GM'd 3.5 or PF1e. Never played PF1e. A total Paizo newb who before 2e maintained an upturned nose towards Pathfinder generally.

of the 10 non-overlapping players in my 2 campaigns - 1 is a hard "switch everything", 2 are decidedly "keep playing PF2e if you keep running adventures" (one of whom was anti-PF1e). 3 are complete TTRPG newbs having never played or last played in 1e era. 4 are... I guess neutral - they enjoy the game but have no real comment on PF2e the system.

I also have 2 other people waiting in the wings who really want to play PF2e, if spots open up. Not the campaign or module (because I'm wrapping up plaguestone and this has never been advertised as a "campaign"), but want to play PF2e the system

This isn't data. In my little private discord world of 22 face to face friends (and friends of friends) who've banded together for online games during the pandemic - there are 2 active and 1 soon to be 5e games. 2 active PF2e games, 1 aliens, 1 CoC, 1 PbtA based game and 1 heroquest game being run. More non-data: while I have purchased the physical books - at least 3 other players picked up the Humble bundle. no way they ever would have dropped $ for PF2e if that bundle wasn't out there.

My 2 cents is this. PF2e needs a local champion (in this case, me, who's became unabashedly a fan-boy) and if you can demo PF2e, especially the parts that make it different/special, people will accept it as part of their gaming rotation.

In my little world. PF2e is the 2nd most popular system being run, its the 2nd most supported system by way of player investment in game materials (thanks to Humble), and has the most unique players of all games playing different PF2e games.

Cheers,

J.
 

The APG is out, and PF2E is much lower than it was when this prediction was made.
So first off not a prediction, just that that would be the next data point. And that data point is that the APG is at the moment the top non D&D gaming product on Amazon (and not the weird one off CRPG books that pop up). That would be what I would expect for PF sales from now on they aren't going to eclipse a popular D&D, but will sell better than any other system.
 



dave2008

Legend
Then again no one has the real numbers as to what is going on with PF2. Paizo obviously is making enough to fund three APs, a core rulebook, and an APG with other supplemental materials as well as future projects. So they must not being too terribly bad given the amount of PF2 material they are able to produce and have planned. They don't appear to be looking to kill PF2 because it was an obvious failure. That is a good sign.
That was how 4e appeared until about the 3rd year when "essentials" came out and even then they were still release material like crazy. That didn't really slow until 5e was announced. Not saying this is the case with PF, just saying it is probably to soon to tell.
 


Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
Though seriously, the fact that Paizo is still printing the basics of PF1, and PF1 and 3E are still in PDF...not sure how much more of a market there is for that.
I personally have no clue, but if they keep reprinting it some kind of market has to be out there...
 






Malkinban

The Torn
My 2 cents is this. PF2e needs a local champion (in this case, me, who's became unabashedly a fan-boy) and if you can demo PF2e, especially the parts that make it different/special, people will accept it as part of their gaming rotation.

I agree with this. I think 5E has had such a long time to capture the zeitgeist of modern TTRPG culture that it IS the culture for a large majority of people.

I'm waiting for the beginner box to come out. I'm hoping to order that from my FLGS and then run demos, perhaps on a monthly basis to try and gain some converts. My group is already solid in terms of numbers, but we have to order everything in, so there is no shelf presence for P2 at my FLGS. Even turning one demo participant into a GM could potentially turn the tide at my store.
 



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