Removal of class feats to add bonuses with single weapon?

[Angcuru]

I've been trying to figure out how to make a ranger class that focuses entirely on archery and gains bonuses with one specific bow, and I think I've come across a good mechanic for it. If any of you remember the Archer kit from 2nd edition, you'll understand what I'm going for.

This is what I'm thinking. Start off with the Monte Cook Ranger(which is what I use when I think Ranger) and remove his proficiencies with Martial Weapons, Medium and Heavy Armor, and Shields. I.E. Remove four feats from the class: Martial Weapon Proficiency, Armor Proficiency(Medium), Armor Proficiency(Heavy), and Shield Proficiency. They are restricted from taking further weapon proficiency feats other than those dealing with exotic bows. Yes, by this point it should be obvious that the class is designed to be Elf-specific, since how can you be a bow specialist if you aren't proficient with bows? Enter the Elves' Bow Proficiency.

In trade for these four feats, the Ranger gains a +1 competence bonus to attack and damage at first level and at fourth, and again every four levels after that (+2 at lvl 4, +3 at lvl 8) with either Short and Composite Short Bows or Long and Composite Long Bows. Also gains the freedom to select Weapon Specialization(Bow of Choice), but only for that weapon. At 10th level, they gain the ability to, if they have the Rapid Shot Feat, take up to their dexterity modifier in extra shots, but with an additional -2 to attack with each shot. I.E. A ranger with a +3 deterity modifer could take and extra 3 shots per round, but with a -6 penalty to each shot that round.

Sound fair? No talk that archers are naturally overpowered please. They just have a different fighting style which has a natural advantage. This also fits very well with elves since they come to realize that with such long lives, one is much more likely to survive if he kills his opponents before they can reach him.

 

[Crothian]

No, it doesn't sound fair. You give up a bunch of armor that no one wears, you give up weapons that you'll never use to get a huge bonus to attack and damage. At first level an elf can easily have +10 to attack (+1 BAB, +5 Dex, +4 from the class changes). Perhaps if you only made it +1 at first level, forbid them from using any other weapon except the bow, and made the BAB lower it would be okay.

 

[Angcuru]

No, it doesn't sound fair. You give up a bunch of armor that no one wears, you give up weapons that you'll never use to get a huge bonus to attack and damage. At first level an elf can easily have +10 to attack (+1 BAB, +5 Dex, +4 from the class changes). Perhaps if you only made it +1 at first level, forbid them from using any other weapon except the bow, and made the BAB lower it would be okay.

Well, if you give up the training in those weapons and armor, you can focus that much more of your time on fighting with a particular weapon, in this case the bow. What do you mean +4 from class changes at first level? They only get the +1 at LVL1, +2 at LVL4, +3 at LVL8, etc. You must have misread the text. I think it would be a bit too much to forbid them from using any weapon other than the bow, but I just remembered that as a clause they cannot take further weapon proficiency feats other than exotic weapon proficiency feats for bows. Lowering the BAB, I don't know about that.

 

[Coredump]

allowing too much specialization is a munchkins dream. The best way to point-geek is to remove unwanted benefits, and boost your core desires. And these changes do just that. You want to make an archer, great. But as a disadvantage, you can't wear armor... who cares? And can't spend one of your few feats on weapon prof... who cares? Yet you still get some cool advantages.. yay! Also dont like how it is for elves only. Giving up things you don't care about, to get bonuses in the things you do... is a no brainer, and yes, not fair.

Sound fair? No talk that archers are naturally overpowered please. They just have a different fighting style which has a natural advantage

I don't get this, how is the fact that they already have an inherrent natural advantage a defense that they are not overpowered??

.

 

[Thels]

A munchkin dreaming... If you want to specialize with one weapon, be a Fighter! That's what they're for.

God, I wish people would stop whining about the Ranger not being able to fight as well as the Fighter does.

 

[Angcuru]

Well, I suggest you people take a look at the Arcane Archer. +1 to attack and damage with arrows for every 2 levels. What I'm suggesting is that someone can replicate a similar effect by training exclusively with the bow to gain the effect, but to a much lesser extent. They only get the +1 at first level and ever four levels after that. If you don't like the idea of only elves being able to take this path, then how about we change it so that instead of Gaining martial weapon proficiency with Ranged and Melee, you only gain Proficiency in the Ranged Martial Weapons? How about the character is limited to the use of bows and one simple melee weapon of their choice, focusing nearly all of their time on use of the bow? If you don't like it being only for the Ranger, then just look at the mechanics. They can be applied to any of the fighting classes: Ranger, Paladin, and Fighter. I only suggested the ranger in my first post because I was designing this change for a character who happens to be a ranger. I think it might also be fair to drop the HD to a d6, since they don't spend that significant amount of time getting toughened in melee combat, but then that would be quite a bit to trade for a simple +1 every four levels.

I don't get this, how is the fact that they already have an inherrent natural advantage a defense that they are not overpowered??

Archers concentrate on fighting long range, concentrating on taking out their opponents with multiple accurate shots before they can be put into danger, themselves, but are still vulnerable to ranged attack themselves, due to their wearing only light armor, if any. If they get stuck in melee, they are almost certainly gonna get offed.

The case is just the opposite with the melee fighter. They concentrate on close-quarters combat, and take out their opponents REALLY fast with their swords slicing and dicing. They are hard to hit in any case, since they tend to wear a lot of very thick armor all over their bodies. If they get caught in arrow fire, there is a possibility that they might get quite seriously wounded or even die before they reach their foe, but when they do, that foe is dead meat.

Both styles of combat have different significant advantages.

 

[Thels]

This way it would become a new class... kind of like a PrC class... Kind of like the Arcane Archer or Deepwood Sniper... We already have those PrC's.

 

[Angcuru]

I prefer to think of it as a variant core class, a throwback to the Kits of old.