Removing Set Ability Score Bonuses from Races

[Prestidigitalis]

I love the fact that "race matters" in 4e, but I would prefer that racial differences be achieved through race-specific feats, powers and paragon paths, rather than ability bonuses. Thread +1.

 

[Mengu]

I don't think it would be *insanely* unbalanced, I think it would be slightly unbalanced. A dwarf fighter getting +2 Strength seems too good, until you look at a dwarf avenger, who has all the same advantages of the dwarf race as a melee character, and gets the primary stat boost to his wisdom anyway.

So I say it's slightly unbalanced. Something in the lines of, moving one of the +2's to another stat as a +1 might be just about the right dose of customization. 17/14/14, or 17/16/11 are pretty reasonable stat arrays to work with in this case, if you're moving that extra +2 to a primary stat. If you already have your primary stat, and moving a secondary, like for a dragonborn fighter who wants to move his +2 charisma to a +1 constitution, that would open the door for numerous other workable stat arrays.

I don't really think this last solution would be too powerful (just a little more powerful than the average character), nor do I think it would make any race too weak. As a matter of fact, for a race like Tiefling or Halfling, it opens up a lot of new doors. You might consider giving humans a +1 to a second stat so they are a bit more competitive in this environment.

 

[mneme]

I don't think it would be *insanely* unbalanced, I think it would be slightly unbalanced.
...
As a matter of fact, for a race like Tiefling or Halfling, it opens up a lot of new doors. You might consider giving humans a +1 to a second stat so they are a bit more competitive in this environment.

More or less exactly my thought (I'd just flat out let races float either one or both stats, and give humans an extra floating +1 (but not an extra floating +2, as that would be unbalancing with their other advantages). This would be more powerful than the current approach, but not, in most cases, unbalanced. And it would be -much- more varied than the stat-locked approach.

Regarding races that have two bonuses to one stat, they typically currently try to balance this out with a bonus to a defense. So if you let people float the bonuses, you want to drop one of the NAD bonuses -- an Eladrin who can take Str/Dex instead of Int/Dex doesn't really need a +1 to Will.

 

[korjik]

Having one or both stat bonuses be flexible would make the good stats a little better. Considering that the players will fall behind the monsters at some point, the total effect is just to make the game a bit easier at low level, on target at a sweet spot, and less far behind at high level.

I dont see how that is all that much of a problem. Definitely not insanely imbalancing.

 

[babinro]

Good points made, particularly on the small characters...they would be all but obsolete. I think the floating +2 to a non-key stat is a great idea...likely one I'll implement in a future campaign.

 

[Destil]

I think it's pretty simple to fix any unbalanced combos. In fact in some cases it's weaker (say you give an elf +2 Dex +2 Int. Their other defenses are now a bit sub-par).

Personally I've really been considering house-ruling +2 to any score your race gets a bonus to and +2 to any other ability score. That makes it possible for people get the essential 16->18 in their class' primary regardless of race. There's some small balance issues with defense bonuses and feats, but overall I don't think it would be anything game-breaking.

 

[cattoy]

Do you also intend to allow any race to take any feats, regardless of race prereqs?

 

[Starfox]

One house rule I've seen: every character has the option of getting a +2 they can apply to any ability score, besides the ability scores their racial bonuses apply to...

This

 

[korjik]

Do you also intend to allow any race to take any feats, regardless of race prereqs?

Non-sequitur: No one has even mentioned feats. This isnt even a point of discussion in this thread.

 

[cattoy]

Non-sequitur: No one has even mentioned feats. This isnt even a point of discussion in this thread.

It's a related point. Many races are given superior feats to compensate for their inferior stat bonus distributions. E.G. Eladrin soldier training because eladrin make sub-par fighters. Dwarven weapon training because dwarves lack str bonuses, etc.

If dwarves could have STR bonuses, then their weapon training feat would be unbalanced unless any race had access to it as well.