D&D 5E (2014) Removing the HP Bloat

[Wiseblood]

Or dig deeper pits?

Can’t...union rules.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I start my players characters at Con score + HD's average + Con mod hit points, but then they only have the option to take the HD's average + Con mod on level up, up to 10th level. At 11th +, PCs gain only 1+ Con mod hp per level.

Monsters have 4 types:
Minion: HP equals to their number of hit die (ex: a goblin minion has 2 hp), deal average damage.
Normal: regular monster block
Champion: Max Hp and ''advantage'' on damage dice (roll two sets, keep the highest)
Paragon: Same a Champion, but has a second turn in the initiative. OR add attack multi targets in its range.

 

[Istbor]

I have not run into long lasting encounters, unless they were intended to be that way. Even then, it was more of a string of encounters in one large battle or a chase and fight scene through a forest.

Typical combats though... probably like 3-4 rounds and maybe 30 minutes. And this is due to 6 players, who all enjoy talking OOC too much .

Current party is (all 5th lvl) Ranger, Fighter, 2 Clerics, Wizard, and Sorcerer. (We do have a guest star Rogue sometimes)

 

[touc]

At 11th +, PCs gain only 1+ Con mod hp per level....

All other modifications aside, have you played enough high level adventures to get a feel whether this is impacting the game in a positive or negative way (e.g. barbarians, who rely on a higher hit point pool as a class feature)?

I was a fan of AD&D limiting the rate of hit point advancement as I believe it was purposeful, providing a greater incentive to find ways to avoid damage (even if the system didn't scale like it should have). But I haven't theorycrafted it in 5E.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

All other modifications aside, have you played enough high level adventures to get a feel whether this is impacting the game in a positive or negative way (e.g. barbarians, who rely on a higher hit point pool as a class feature)?

I was a fan of AD&D limiting the rate of hit point advancement as I believe it was purposeful, providing a greater incentive to find ways to avoid damage (even if the system didn't scale like it should have). But I haven't theorycrafted it in 5E.

Honestly no.

Its mostly because I dont like higher level gameplay, so I tend to not DM pass 10th level. But my players would like to have access to the high level features of their character. So I made this little houserule to potentially give them high-level play without having them sitting on a pile of HP. In theory it would be good for both my players and I.

My ideal would be to create a version of 5e that goes up to 10th level, but where players gain all the features from their class/archetypes in those 10 levels. But I have a hard time squeezing all the stuff.

 

[Wiseblood]

Having run high level up to twenty HP did not manifest as a problem. Even the toughest enemies were overwhelmed by the PC’s. Like sandblasting a soup cracker. Orcus and a Molydeus combined lasted under 4 rounds even though the Paladin failed a save against Imprisonment (with advantage). In retrospect I should have used 2-4 Molydei.

PC’s could get knocked down pretty quick too.

 

[Stalker0]

I personally don't think monsters have too many HP, as they generally go down in a few rounds. I would say they don't do enough damage to PCs for their CR.

But that said, I think this variant is fine, just be aware it does a lot more than speed up combat, this is a much grittier game than base. No issue with that, but just make sure that is what you want in your game.

 

[Bacon Bits]

I have the opposite problem - I think most monters don't live long enough. Most monsters, even those with lots of hp, would be lucky to live to Round 3.

Same. I give every NPC 150% of their listed average hp minimum, and that's with running every combat at at least Deadly difficulty. If we don't do that, the players tend to get bored. We do use chargen rules that result in slightly higher than normal stats (roll 4d6 drop 1 until you get a 16 or better, then take that plus the next 5), but that's all.

The only HP bloat that I see is on the PC's side. I even have considered changing how hit points increase at level 11 and above.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I see your point about maxing out the one score but IME at most tables in 5E that happens anyway, in fact, is is pretty much assumed. I am not happy about that, as I see even a +3 modifier as good enough personally. Your idea of the third-highest is pretty much what happens with most PCs CON as is as I see it. The idea of rolling randomly is appealing, but goes against the idea that your strongest ability should naturally contribute the most. Now, proficiency bonus is intriguing... I'll have to give that some thought.

I think for your purposes you just drop the modifier entirely and use the bare die every level. Maybe
knock everyone down a die size/take 1 off the "average" roll. That should get you down to about half the hit points as before.

 

[NotAYakk]

Something like level 11 or 12, two paladins, rogue, wizard, druid, bard, fighter vs eight shada-kai shadowdancers. The PCs where ambushed, otherwise it would have been over far quicker.

8 monsters at CR 7 each is a pretty beefy encounter.

But 7 players at level 12ish is also really beefy.

Still, I'd expect 2-4 of the shadowdancers to drop per round. More if the wizard or bard have the right spells ready.