Removing The Stat Penaly on Volo's Guide Orcs

[Horwath]

You kidding me? 1 cp and a visit to the general store will get you a torch.

That is all fine and well for a full plated fighter or cleric.

Rogues job is usually to be unseen. Carrying a torch in pitch darkness will usually give away your scouting.

 

[Tony Vargas]

So, how they can go around in darkness without magic?

Clearly a trick question: a 5e party should never be "without magic." ;P

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Clearly a trick question: a 5e party should never be "without magic." ;P

Obviously Tony is joking, but if you can get your players to buy into it, a "no PC magic" campaign might be really cool and interesting if set in a low-magic world, a la Conan. Just say that only 1 person in 1000 has the aptitude to actually access the magical fabric for spellcasting, and none of the PCs have it. (You can still fight the occasional evil wizard.)

Berserkers, Battleragers, Champions, Battlemasters, Bannerets, Thieves, Assassins, and Swashbucklers is plenty of variety to make a pretty fun campaign. Maybe open-hand monks too.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

That is all fine and well for a full plated fighter or cleric.

So you concede that for most characters, darkvision can be effectively substituted for by the cheapest item on the Adventuring Gear table?

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Obviously Tony is joking, but if you can get your players to buy into it, a "no PC magic" campaign might be really cool and interesting if set in a low-magic world, a la Conan. Just say that only 1 person in 1000 has the aptitude to actually access the magical fabric for spellcasting, and none of the PCs have it. (You can still fight the occasional evil wizard.)

Berserkers, Battleragers, Champions, Battlemasters, Bannerets, Thieves, Assassins, and Swashbucklers is plenty of variety to make a pretty fun campaign. Maybe open-hand monks too.

Running it. Quite by accident, too -- the players just showed up with a battlemaster, an assassin, and a thief/berserker. Since this is my main campaign and my primary experience with 5E, I'm always nonplussed by complaints that 5E has too much magic.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Obviously Tony is joking, but if you can get your players to buy into it, a "no PC magic" campaign might be really cool and interesting if set in a low-magic world

I'm relieved that it was obvious.

In theory, players can just happen to pick all non-magic-using options, but D&D has rarely delivered too well on low-/no-magic capaigns, for instance....

Berserkers, Battleragers, Champions, Battlemasters, Bannerets, Thieves, Assassins, and Swashbucklers is plenty of variety to make a pretty fun campaign. Maybe open-hand monks too.

It's a fair variety of concepts, and some variety in Exploration (depending on stat, background & skill choices), potentially some in Social challenges (missed Mastermind), but in combat, particularly, they're all just pushing out the DPR. There's very little actual flexibility inherent in the small range of capability among those sub-class options in the other two pillars, either, not compared to a 'normal' party with plenty of supernatural resources.

The DM, as always, can make it work, by adding a greater variety of non-magical player options and/or tightly constraining the challenges presented (or depending on the PCs to choose their 'battles' very carefully).

 

[Horwath]

So you concede that for most characters, darkvision can be effectively substituted for by the cheapest item on the Adventuring Gear table?

If you don't care about stealth, ranged combat farther than 40', using 2handed weapons or using a weapon and a shield, or risk being blinded by a mug of cheap ale, rain, diving, yeah sure, it can get substituted.

 

[Horwath]

Obviously Tony is joking, but if you can get your players to buy into it, a "no PC magic" campaign might be really cool and interesting if set in a low-magic world, a la Conan. Just say that only 1 person in 1000 has the aptitude to actually access the magical fabric for spellcasting, and none of the PCs have it. (You can still fight the occasional evil wizard.)

Berserkers, Battleragers, Champions, Battlemasters, Bannerets, Thieves, Assassins, and Swashbucklers is plenty of variety to make a pretty fun campaign. Maybe open-hand monks too.

I'm thinking that for next campaign.

all full casters banned, rangers and paladins get UA spell less ranger variant(wannabe battle master fighter) and paladins get lay on hand buffed to 5+cha bonus per level.

So no spells, only healing from; lay on hands, rangers poultices, healer feat and medicine skill.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

It's a fair variety of concepts, and some variety in Exploration (depending on stat, background & skill choices), potentially some in Social challenges (missed Mastermind), but in combat, particularly, they're all just pushing out the DPR. There's very little actual flexibility inherent in the small range of capability among those sub-class options in the other two pillars, either, not compared to a 'normal' party with plenty of supernatural resources.

Whereas 1E fighters and rogues were tactical cornucopias?

 

[Tony Vargas]

Whereas 1E fighters and rogues were tactical cornucopias?

There was a lot of D&D history between 1e & 5e.