Reports and News from D&D XP

[Glyfair]

Ok, this is a little off the topic, but a question for Merric. What exactly was said about the Fantastic Locations style of maps? I heard they didn't do so well, and I heard reference to threads about the subject on the Wizard's site...but I can't find any of it. (feel free to point me there if you like...posting a link to a Wizard's thread is kosher here I think, isn't it?)

DO they have a future in some sort of format aside from what they've tried already?

Its a bummer, really. I'm a big fan of the line.

Merric's sites states:

Fantastic Locations
Have not been selling that well; Wizards are looking for a new way of distributing maps.

I bought them because I love maps. In retrospect, I think this series tried to be a poor man's adventure too much. Perhaps they should have focused on the location of "Fantastic Locations" more.

For example, the Fane of the Drow could have covered an area in the Underdark as a sort of mini-regional sourcebook. The maps would cover certain areas likely to have key strategic battles. It could have an environmental feel in spots with encounter tables, bits on effects you can expect in underdark or drow areas (difficultly teleporting out, etc). Then have a couple of battle scenes using the maps ("Drow Ambush," "Mind Flayer slavers").

 

[Nyeshet]

Tell Erik Mona I'll be a slave if I must to see the modron race as a whole. Unified as an extraplanar race of alien constructs should be.

Suddenly I just had a recollection of watching Voltron as a kid, except this time it was modrons joining together.

And then, reading 'race of alien constructs', I thought of the Transformers - specifically the movie coming this summer.

I think I need more exposure to modrons. My views on what a construct race should be like are beginning to shift a bit oddly, I think . . . .

 

[grodog]

Now, I'm sure there are people questioning the market research. Some of them feel that Greyhawk is much more popular than that. I think that it might be, but not for WotC's purposes. They are concerned with selling products. I think a significant percentage of Greyhawk's fan base are not going to be interested in buying a 3rd edition product. They are playing with other versions of D&D (or maybe some of the D&D variations floating around now). They aren't realistically potential customers for future WotC Greyhawk products (at least long term).

FWIW, Lisa Stevens has exploded the myth that GH wasn't selling:

Lisa Stevens (CEO), Fri, Feb 24, 2006, 12:57 AM

Or perhaps the fact that Greyhawk doesn't sell.

Don't get me wrong: I like Greyhawk, too. But when compared to the incredibly successful franchises Forgotten Realms, Eberron, or even the ordinary supplements that WotC puts out, Greyhawk cannot even carry a torch.

Well, I can tell you, as the last person who was the Greyhawk Brand Manager at WotC, that Greyhawk sold almost as well as Forgotten Realms. It was a really successful line of products. However, when we started 3rd edition, the manager of D&D at the time decided that we had too many campaign settings, so Greyhawk got put off to the side in favor of FR. It had everything to do with not starting the proliferation of game settings and nothing to do with sales. Just for the record.

Lisa Stevens
CEO

Original post @ http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/dragon/compendium/aoWHCAndDragonCompendiumII&page=1

 

[grodog]

Based on the majority of WOTC DND feedback forms and online marketing surveys that I have seen, I do not put much stock in claims about how much research they do for DND nor do I put much stock into the quality of such feedback forms and online surveys.

WotC's pre-3.x market research survey was quite exhaustive: I was sent the survey by the national opinion polling organization they contracted to conduct the survey, and it was thorough. For the details and scope of the survey, see http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/gaming/WotCMarketResearchSummary.html

 

[Shadowslayer]

I bought them because I love maps. In retrospect, I think this series tried to be a poor man's adventure too much. Perhaps they should have focused on the location of "Fantastic Locations" more.

For example, the Fane of the Drow could have covered an area in the Underdark as a sort of mini-regional sourcebook. The maps would cover certain areas likely to have key strategic battles. It could have an environmental feel in spots with encounter tables, bits on effects you can expect in underdark or drow areas (difficultly teleporting out, etc). Then have a couple of battle scenes using the maps ("Drow Ambush," "Mind Flayer slavers").

I'd have been happy with a short set of generic locations...bridge across a creek, a barrow field, a cemetery, a forest, a creek with no bridge etc. I mean, I love the series, but how many times are you gonna use the Hellspike Prison Map?

The only time they came close was the King's Road one.

I'd be interested to know who bought more of them...RPG guys or skirmish guys.

 

[Greg K]

WotC's pre-3.x market research survey was quite exhaustive: I was sent the survey by the national opinion polling organization they contracted to conduct the survey, and it was thorough. For the details and scope of the survey, see http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/gaming/WotCMarketResearchSummary.html

I know that the pre 3.x survey was exhaustive. I took part and about 80-90% of the changes that I had mentioned wanting were actually instituted. It's the post 3.x release surveys that I question.

 

[Darrell]

My biggest problem, quite frankly, is with the Eberron push.

I prefer Greyhawk; but have no overwhelming aversion to playing in the Realms. Past that, however, I'd go to third party sources like Kalamar, Scarred Lands, Arcanis, and other worlds--and then probably give up D&D altogether--before playing in Eberron.

I read the initial setting book, didn't like it, and didn't buy it. As far as I'm concerned, it's garbage, plain and simple.

Keep your steampunk and 'magic-punk' overtones OUT of my straightforward fantasy, if you please. No flying ships (I'm looking at you, too, Forgotten Realms 'Shining South'), no pseudo-robot machine men (I don't even use Iron Golems), etc., etc. In fact, even Greyhawk is too 'magic-y' for my taste. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.......

Regards,
Darrell

 

[Dire Bare]

But WotC wanted to engineer a big success a la FR and Dragonlance. So they pushed Eberron on everyone.

Hmmm, while I have to agree that Eberron is an "engineered" success rather than an organicly grown one . . . it IS a success! It's not everyone's cup of tea for shure, but you can't deny that lots of gamers LOVE this new setting. Looks like a smart and successful move on WotC's part to me . . .

Greyhawk is awesome! But Greyhawkers would have lower blood pressure if they just accepted that Greyhawk isn't as popular as other D&D settings, especiallly the current toppers of Forgotten Realms and Eberron. If I'm wrong on this one, which would be totally OK, then perhaps WotC will push more Greyhawk support after the amazing success of "Expedition to Castle Greyhawk"!

Well, I can tell you, as the last person who was the Greyhawk Brand Manager at WotC, that Greyhawk sold almost as well as Forgotten Realms. It was a really successful line of products. However, when we started 3rd edition, the manager of D&D at the time decided that we had too many campaign settings, so Greyhawk got put off to the side in favor of FR. It had everything to do with not starting the proliferation of game settings and nothing to do with sales. Just for the record.

I can't dispute Lisa Stevens 'cause she knows what's she's talking about and is way smarter than me. However, I get the impression that Greyhawk's lack of emphasis from WotC isn't so much because Greyhawk doesn't sell, but that it doesn't sell ENOUGH to warrant the increased attention. But there are lots of folks at WotC who would like to be proved wrong and so they do "feeler" products like "Expedition to Castle Greyhawk" from time to time.

It's not WotC's job to make Greyhawk fans happy (which has proven somewhat difficult to do . . . unless your name is Paizo), it's WotC's job to sell as many D&D books as possible by keeping D&D fans happy. All Greyhawk fans are D&D fans, but not all D&D fans are Greyhawk fans . . . which is an important distinction.

 

[eyebeams]

I've heard people praise WotC's market research, but I also know a stats prof who didn't care for their methods.

As for "D&D's Best Year Ever," the last time that was announced was before a round of layoffs that hit a friend of mine and the very person who made that statement. Let us say that I was skeptical then and now definitely regard any such claims to be highly *contestable* when it comes to applying it to common sense definitions of things. Then again, that last claim came about when Hasbro suffered an overall downturn, including, IIRC, about an 8% drop in games net revenue in FY2005. By contrast, Hasbro's 4th Q 2006 highlights report strong performance that exceeds projections, but D&D is *not* singled out as a strongly-performing brand.

For all intents and purposes, a phrase like "Best Year Ever" is totally meaningless. Brand or product line(s)? Net or gross? Inflation adjusted or not? Counting from which year? How reliable are records of past years?

Keep in mind that while D&D is this Cyclopean thing from the POV of RPG manufacturing, in Hasbro's general reportage it is largely treated as an output of WotC's minis and publishing concerns. Then again, this could be because they're afraid of D&D's lingering PR problems and don't want to draw attention to it. But D&D as a thing in of itself doesn't register much, in any event.

As for Eberron: WotC is also in the business of creating intellectual property. RPGs are a cheap way to do so with a built-in test market. Salvatore alone has over 3 million sales to his name and Drizz't merchandise alone may well garner more profit than the game that inspired him. It makes sense to experiment with a new setting, see how it flies with D&D fans and then see how it can be exploited beyond the traditional RPG fanbase -- and this is exactly what happened.

 

[Agamon]

From my point of view, Greyhawk fans are Greyhawk fans because the setting is left alone (and get angry when it's messed with). I find it difficult to believe there is a clamor for new products. Maybe they just don't like GH being ignored. Adventures are nice, ExtCG is good, what Dungeon is doing is great, not sure if we need much more than that.

FR fans obviously like the constant change and described minutia and that's what makes GH and FR different. They couldn't start doing that for GH, it would be redundant.