Response to Woas about HARP

Akrasia said:
Actually, I always thought that MERP was pretty straightforward -- certainly much more simple than 3.x D&D. (At least in my experience. Sure you have critical charts and maneuver charts in MERP, but there are no feats, the skills are more straightforward, and everything, including spells and combat abilities, is handled by the same mechanic, unlike "d20" D&D.)

I wasn't comparing MERP to 3.X, actually, but rather to what I was playing in the mid 1980s when I first encountered MERP, which was 1e. I'd been playing 1e since about 1979, so I knew a lot of it by heart by then, including having memorized the combat matrices. So it was more a matter of old vs. new than anything else.

I did help create the EN World d20 Middle-earth site, but I haven't really had much to do with it for quite a while. Anyway, as for HARP being good for a Middle-earth game...well, I never thought MERP was particularly appropriate for that world. I think it was mostly the crit charts that seemed inappropriate to me. Now, after looking at HARP, I'd say it could handle a Middle-earth campaign just as well as d20 in its D&D form. I think both systems would need some tweaking, but that's true of any system, I guess. I will have to say that HARP would likely be easier to customize for such a game, simply due to the fact that it is a less complex game than d20, straight out of the box. But, y'know, Decipher's LotR RPG is really very, very nice, and is perhaps a bit less complex than even HARP (the LotR RPG is very much like "d20 Lite" using 2d6). Too bad Decipher seems to have abandoned it.

By the way, I wish I had my old MERP books handy; they're great resources, and Angus McBride's art on the covers of so many of them was outstanding.
 

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Okay, I've had a look at the first few chapters. Here's what I'm thinking so far.

1. I like the overall dice mechanic. Simple and consistent. I liked it in d20, why wouldn't I like it here?

2. I like the ability to mix racial types to make your own half-whatever. It's not that I've been dying to play a half-elf/half-dwarf, but it looks like you could use the basic rules to fairly easily make up your own new races.

3. I'm not really sold on how development points work, but I may not be reading them correctly. It looks like the amount of DPs you get per level is based on your stats. So, do I get rewarded for having high stats twice? Once in higher skill rolls and again with more DPs? Like I said, I may not be getting this part.

I'm just now getting into magic and combat. More later.
 

Rasyr said:
Ummm.. I started this thread on November 13th, that is two Saturdays ago... :D

I have been trying to keep it going and active since then.... :D

If this means that you are planning on picking up HARP this weekend (which is what it sounds like you are saying), then........ Cool!!!!! :cool:

yeah well I went to the game store on the 12th it was a sort of dual purpose mission to scout out if complete arcane had come out yet and to get a new system.

And yes I'll be picking up HARP this weekend. Hi my name is Ray Weiss and I'm a gaming addict.
 

A few more thoughts...

Attack/Damage Mechanic: I like that a higher attack roll produces more damage. It seems odd that in many games, you can hit by a ridiculous margin, but still only nick your opponent.

Needing to reference a chart each time seems like it would be a little less intuitive, though. Most of the other mechanics in the game seem like you'd hardly ever need to look them up, but you'll need the weapons chart each time (but there are far fewer than in Rolemaster).

Spell System: I like the scalability of the spell system, done similarly to the way the Expanded Psi Handbook for 3.5 allows you to spend more points for greater effects.

I was a little disappointed to see that rules for making your own new spells weren't included (didn't see any for new magic items either). The spells included are consistent enought that you could probably do a decent job of reverse engineering the guidelines. However, I'm guessing this is better addressed in the Magic supplement.

A minor nitpick in the spell section for me is the reprinting of spells that appear on different caster lists. Just doesn't seem like an efficient use of space.

Monsters: A good cross section of monsters for a basic fantasy game. There are also guidelines for improving or modifying them using the class system characters use. I like this in D&D and I like it here.
 

Greatwyrm said:
Okay, I've had a look at the first few chapters. Here's what I'm thinking so far.

1. I like the overall dice mechanic. Simple and consistent. I liked it in d20, why wouldn't I like it here?
For the most part, it is the same dice mechanic that has been used in Rolemaster for close to 20 years. I applied the mechanic in a slightly different manner, but in essence it is still the same mechanic.
Greatwyrm said:
2. I like the ability to mix racial types to make your own half-whatever. It's not that I've been dying to play a half-elf/half-dwarf, but it looks like you could use the basic rules to fairly easily make up your own new races.
:cool: I really like experimenting and tweaking things, so HARP is a game that is easy to tweak and adjust to suit each GMs individual style. Races are one part of that. And yes, you can create your own races quite easily, they all follow the same basic pattern
  • Stat Bonues - between 8 and 11 points (humans get 8, but get to put them where they want, the other races have 10 or 11 on average)[/*]
  • Endurance & Power Point Bonuses - added together equal 60 points[/*]
  • Resistance Roll Bonuses - added together equals 30 points[/*]
  • Racial Abilities - Each race has three abilities, no more, no less.[/*]
Using the above guidelines you can create all sorts of races....

Greatwyrm said:
3. I'm not really sold on how development points work, but I may not be reading them correctly. It looks like the amount of DPs you get per level is based on your stats. So, do I get rewarded for having high stats twice? Once in higher skill rolls and again with more DPs? Like I said, I may not be getting this part.
Yes, you are "getting it", though I never think of it as a double bonus. To me, a smarter or stronger person would be able to develop more.

However, there are a few others who do think it is a double bonus and have decided to give only a static number of DPs per level. In such cases, the number of DPs given reflects the power level of the game that they run. If you decide to do this, 45 DPs per level would be considered the baseline. You can then adjust up or down to suit your own power level.
 


Greatwyrm said:
A few more thoughts...

Attack/Damage Mechanic: I like that a higher attack roll produces more damage. It seems odd that in many games, you can hit by a ridiculous margin, but still only nick your opponent.
Same thought here. For instance, in Rolemaster, you can open-end your attack roll many times and end up a total of several hundred for the attack, and then roll a 01 for the critical and do NO extra damage. Thus, in HARP, the amount of damage done is tied to how well you hit your opponent.
Greatwyrm said:
Needing to reference a chart each time seems like it would be a little less intuitive, though. Most of the other mechanics in the game seem like you'd hardly ever need to look them up, but you'll need the weapons chart each time (but there are far fewer than in Rolemaster).
Actually, the critical tables are only referenced if you actually hit your foe. The determination of whether or not you hit does not use the tables at all.

Also, it is important to note that HARP does contain an option for running combat without using critical tables at all (the Life Points option). There is a second variation of that in the book Martial Law as well (along with critical tables with columns keyed to body location as well).

Again, we are back to the flexibility of the HARP system, and how you can easily replace the critical tables with something else.

For example, one person has decided to use a variation of the Life Point system. In it, he uses a different die type for each critical size, and then for every 20 points of the final attack roll, the player gets to roll an additional die of the same type. Thus, a character doing a medium attack (broad sword), and having a final attack roll of 47 would do 2d10 damage. He then figures bleeding and maneuver penalties on the fly from the total amount of hit damage done on the dice.
Greatwyrm said:
Spell System: I like the scalability of the spell system, done similarly to the way the Expanded Psi Handbook for 3.5 allows you to spend more points for greater effects.
I actually designed that system several years ago. Back when ICE's Spacemaster first came out, before I could get a chance to purchase it, I used that basic design for a psionics system of my own devising (though unfortunately I never finished it). Then in 2002 when I started designing HARP, I used that same basic system, though in a much more codified manner, for the HARP spell system.
Greatwyrm said:
I was a little disappointed to see that rules for making your own new spells weren't included (didn't see any for new magic items either). The spells included are consistent enought that you could probably do a decent job of reverse engineering the guidelines. However, I'm guessing this is better addressed in the Magic supplement.
Correct, both the creation of new spells (and Cantrips), the creation of magic items (which requires either rituals or certain spells), and the creation of Rituals are all covered in College of Magics.

To create new spells, you select the proper aspects and atributes of the spell you are creating. Each has a point cost (and multiple aspects increases the cost by doubling the cost of aspects beyond the first), and the final point cost is what is used to determine how many Power Points the base spell will cost. Certain Scaling Options (such as range and duration increases) have set costs (in PP), and are added in at the end of the spell creation process.
Greatwyrm said:
A minor nitpick in the spell section for me is the reprinting of spells that appear on different caster lists. Just doesn't seem like an efficient use of space.
Well, that was done for ease of use by the player. Notice how each profession's spells begin and end on a specific page, and how you never have spells from two professions on the same page. It was done like this so that a player can just photocopy the pages with the spells for his profession (or a GM can do the same for a player who does not have the book) on them, and not have to worry about spells outside their profession being mixed in with the rest.

For example, if you are GMing, and a player (who does not have HARP), is playing a Warrior Mage, then you only need to photocopy pages 111-114 for the Universal spells that he might learn, and pages 135-137 for the Warrior Mage spells that he might learn. That is 7 pages in total versus a possible 12 or more page if we had listed the spells alphabetically, and not by sphere, and not repeated spells that were in more than one sphere. See? Easier for those playing the game.
Greatwyrm said:
Monsters: A good cross section of monsters for a basic fantasy game. There are also guidelines for improving or modifying them using the class system characters use. I like this in D&D and I like it here.
Thanks! I will admit that I did get the inspiration for that (i.e. monster can have levels in professions) from D&D.

However, I implemented the basic concept in a slightly different manner as HARP does not have "monster levels" like D&D does. Instead all creatures are created as straight HARP Fighters of the appropriate level. Thus Kobolds are all first level Fighters, and Orcs are all 6th level Fighters. I also used 75 across the board for all stats as well (for consistency). Also, with the rules for additional Professions, this makes it easy to add levels of Mage, Cleric, or whatever you like to the base monster, or to create him as that profession from the ground up as well.
 


Any more comments or questions?


BTW, I am also working on yet another variation of the Life Point system (no tables required for use) that incorporates base damage determined by weapon size, with additional damage determined by how well the attack was made. This system also incorporates critical strike, which can double the amount of damage done if the attack was good enough. I am planning on including this new alternative in a pdf product that I am working on writing (am calling it "HARPer's Bazaar" and it will be the first issue of a quarterly publication containing new races, cultures, and other odds and ends from my twisted phyche) :D It should be available sometime in early December for those interested.
 

I want to bring up the development point thing again.

I skimmed over the character creation download, and it looks like higher stats give you more development points, which can give you higher stats, which give you more development points, etc etc, ad infinitum. Is that how it works?
 

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