Restricted spelllists for clerics

[Sammael99]

I know a lot of DMs have put in place a system with restricted spell-lists for Clerics depending on their deity. I'm thinking of doing the same thing and I've hit a few problems :

I like the idea for reasons of flavour (I don't see why a cleric of a peaceful god should be able to call upon the wrath of a Pillar of Fire, for example), and because I believe clerics to be one of the better all-round classes, so specialising them a bit more is OK in my book.

The main issue is as follows : if I design the spelllists of a god of healing and protection for example, the spells are going to be very much restricted to, well, healing and protection. Then if I do the list of a god of war and destruction, if I was to maintain balance, he would have no healing spells. That would likely have a major effect on the campaign...

Has anyone tried this ? If yes, how have they solved the issue ?

A secondary point was proposed by one of my players who said : if you're going to restrict the spell-lists that harshly, then you should make the casting spontaneous. Spontaneous casting for divine spellcasters also makes sense in the "miracle" approach of divine spellcasting. I don't think that would unbalance things too much considering a lot of spells are taken out.

My issue is then : what becomes of druids. If clerics cast spontaneously then druids should too, but I don't want to give them additional power, they're fine as it is...

Can those of you who have tried this comment ?

 

[Sammael99]

Sorry to rudely bump my own thread, but I'd like some hints on this, or maybe some indications as to where I can go to find more info...

 

[wolfpunk]

What I have done in my campaign setting is something like this. I made three categories of spells for each deity. The lists are as follows, favored, neutral, unfavored.

If a priest attempts to cast a spell off of the favoured list, no chance of failure. If the priest attempts to cast a spell off of the neutral list 10 percent chance of failure. If the priest attempts to cast a spell off of the unfavored list 50 percent chance of failure.

This makes it so that some spells are much less likely to be cast by clerics of a certain faith, but not completely impossible, since miracles are just that, something otherwise impossible.

Hope this helps you come up with an idea.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

You might want to look at the Shugenja class in Oriental Adventures. It casts divine spells spontaneously but from a limited list, just like the PHB sorcerer. I would give them the two domains and granted powers like a regular cleric (OA gives them some other abilities tied into the OA setting).

The only restriction on spells known is that 50% of spells known must be of the shugenja's one chosen element (air, earth, fire, water, wood, spirit). You could replace these with other types of spells more in tune with their domains. You could also just ignore this altogether. It certainly would limit clerics and force them to choose between learning cure spells or other spells each level.

 

[WaterRabbit]

This was tried in 2e when the spells were broken up into spheres. A good idea in theory, but a bad one in practice. To do this properly you will have to design balanced spell lists for each diety that includes a reasonable spell selection. That will also mean that you might have to create new spells to replace missing spells.

I would recommend against Spontaneous Casting unless you go the Shugenja way as per Kaptain_Kantrip's suggestion.

 

[Sammael99]

This was tried in 2e when the spells were broken up into spheres. A good idea in theory, but a bad one in practice. To do this properly you will have to design balanced spell lists for each diety that includes a reasonable spell selection. That will also mean that you might have to create new spells to replace missing spells.

That is assuming you want to balance religions in terms of power. In practice, I'm not bothered by the fact that a cleric of a war god is more "powerful" than the cleric of a healer god, since power in D&D is most often perceived as capacity to damage. It's hard to evaluate the actual power of healing spells, but if clerics of war gods don't have them, they suddenly become a lot more powerful...

I'll check out the Shugenja tonight and see how that's useable. Thanks for the advice. I might post spelllists here once I start working on them if anyone is interested.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Yes, post your spell lists here.

 

[RavenSinger]

What I do for Druids (somewhat OT)

I definately understand where your concerns are coming from Sammael. I am not sure I would want to implement a spontaneous casting system for clerics. Too many headaches coming up with spell lists. Though the Kaptain's Shugenja idea sounds like a good one (not being familiar with OA).

Something that I have implemented for Druids in my campaign is allowing them to take a domain if they wish based on an aspect of Nature that they revere. In my campaign there are three aspects based somewhat on alignment:

Ged (LN)--God of Creation and the Cycle of Nature, Protector of the Natural Law. Domains--Animal, Plant, Law, Healing, Creation

Marat ( True Neutral)--Keeper of the Elements, Maker of the World. Domains--Air, Earth, Fire, Water

Sekonet (CN)--Goddess of the Storm and Earthquake, Queen of Death--Animal, Plant, Chaos, Death, Destruction

Should a druid chose to focus on one of these aspects, she may choose one domain of their particular deity (as a cleric). She also receives a +1 caster level on all spells of the domain type. However, she then cannot cast any spell of the opposing type.

The Opposing Domains are as follows:
Animal--Plant
Law--Chaos
Healing--Death
Creation--Destruction
Air--Earth
Fire--Water


It's pretty straight forward. The reason for the change is that in the campaign, Druids are essentially the Elven clerics. And as such, are somewhat sectarian in their views of how Nature works. I thought access to domains might help to reflect that.

--RavenSinger

 

[Sammael99]

What I have done in my campaign setting is something like this. I made three categories of spells for each deity. The lists are as follows, favored, neutral, unfavored.

If a priest attempts to cast a spell off of the favoured list, no chance of failure. If the priest attempts to cast a spell off of the neutral list 10 percent chance of failure. If the priest attempts to cast a spell off of the unfavored list 50 percent chance of failure.

This makes it so that some spells are much less likely to be cast by clerics of a certain faith, but not completely impossible, since miracles are just that, something otherwise impossible.

Hope this helps you come up with an idea.

Sorry to react so late, but is this with spontaneous casting or not ? If it isn't, in practive, it's just like ditching the spell : I suspect a spellcaster is unlikely to memorize a spell that he only has 1/2 a chance of being able to cast. How does it work in practive in your campaign ?

 

[Kusuf ibn Zaid]

I too felt that the cleric has too broad a list of spells. Therefore, in my campaign, I have cut the clerical list to bare bones. It only includes spells that all clerics should have access to. The total number of spells has been reduced by about a factor of three. To compensate, I have augmented each of the domain lists. The number of new spells added to each domain at each level was chosen such that a cleric with two domains has access to about the same number of spells as the standard cleric. However, those spells are more tightly focused. The end result is that a clerical who wants to have healing powers must take the healing domain. A cleric who wants to blast his enemies with fire must take the fire domain.

- Kusuf