Restrictions vs. Everything Goes

[Mouseferatu]

My general rule is PHB only. Anything else, including DMG and MM, is DM discretion only, with a default answer of "no". I also reserve one week to consider a new spell, feat, or prestige class-- I've gotten myself in trouble in the past by making snap decisions without thinking things through.

Mike

Any time one of my players wants to try something off the wall--i.e. a prestige class, magic item, feat, or spell from beyond the core rules or that they've created--I always tell them that it's a provisional test. Even if I say yes, I reserve the right to change my mind if it turns out to be unfair or unbalanced.

I've never understood why some DMs seem to feel that once they allow something, they're trapped. So far as I'm concerned, if allowing something new turns out to be a mistake, it's better for the game to remove it after the fact, even if it's unrealistic and means having to retrofit a character.

 

[haiiro]

I'd rather restrict a few things right off the bat -- and make it clear what non-core stuff is and is not allowed, etc. -- than have to deal with it later. Particularly given the number of potential sources and the often wild variations in quality (even among WotC products -- compare the PHB to Sword & Fist, for example), I think making distinctions is important.

After coming up with an initial set of restrictions, I'd just make it clear that it's a non-exclusive list -- other items may be restricted, and it's best if the players run things by you before counting on them (or building characters towards, as is the case for PrCs).

As long as you are somewhat flexible about this process, I don't think it's a problem. It's always worked for me.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

I run a very tight, restricted ship when it comes to character creation ... for my NPCs.

If a player wants to play a race that is not present in my world, I'll let him, but I'll make it very clear to the player that he will be the ONLY one and he'll have to deal with that. I don't go out of my way to screw the guy or anything, after all the overwhelming majority of the race/class combinations are balanced. But if the character wanted to be known as "Bob of Smalltown", he will find himself referred to as "Bob the Flumph".

 

[jgbrowning]

That's kind of funny (odd)... as far as I'm concerned, any materials outside the core rules need to be house ruled into a game, not house ruled out.

Ditto. Actually, quite a bit in the core rules has to be house ruled in...

joe b.

 

[Black Omega]

I run a Rokugan game and right from the start I had a good idea on restrictions. Paladin's were right out. There might be some brief fun in how they try to adapt to a society where someone evil was a 'good guy' and someone good was the 'bad guy' but in the long run it simply would not work very well.

In the same sense, most non-Rokugan PrC's are also not allowed. They simply don't fit the campaign very well as they are. I made an exception for Mystic Wanderer, the concept made it easy to imagine how one could end up in Rokugan from other lands.

 

[jdavis]

It seems like this is another one that boils down to powergamers vs roleplayers. neither side is wrong they just both expect different things from the game and normally have a hard time coexisting. I'm sure the same people cause all sorts of different problems based on the same thing, they want to work the system to their advantage.

As Dm your job is making sure the game is fun and that includes being fun for you to. Adjust your campaign to what the majority wants, the others can leave if they want or work with what is given. Out of all the prestige classes out there this guy has to throw a fit over one that you eliminated. I don't see anything wrong with telling him to hit the chair or hit the road. There are dozens and dozens of options left in front of him, the removal of one ,or a few even, should not ruin his gaming experience.

Sometimes it's easier to hit them with a "too hard to fit in" explination than to just say that character class is overbalancing, which infers to the powergamer in question that you took it out because you want to take things away from the players and him in particular. If you say something like " I found that that Prestige class doesn't fit into my game world very well and it would take too much time to work it in and for us to roleplay it all out, why don't you try ____________ instead." then it seems you are saving him from hours of roleplaying so he can get straight to the fighting. They might still get mad but it goes over better than holding up a cross and yelling "Powergamer begone, I rebuke you!", not to mention it makes it look like you are willing to work with the group without actually having to put up with a crappy PrC.

 

[ced1106]

Powergamers? Feh! Being old, cranky, and able to do other things besides babysit, I say if a player is disrupting the game for you, he's disrupting the game for other players.

Anyway, pick up a copy of "Robin Laws Guide to Good Gamemastering". It's a little more lenient than I am in that you **can** run a game with a powergamer.

Me, I just stick to the core books (and Call of Duty for paladins!). Only the DM gets to play with the prestige classes!


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[LostSoul]

I think the best thing to do is to let the players do whatever they want. If somebody comes up with a kick-ass Prestige Class, or whatever, let it slide, but make sure it has repercussions. Don't let the other players feel out of place or worthless.

It's not just the DM's game, after all. It's a group game.

I don't ban any spells or any Prestige Classes, but I make it known that anything the players use I'm free to pick from as well. And if someone just wants to outshine everyone else in the group, I'm going to try to re-balance things (handing out magic items is probably the best way to do this).

 

[Snoweel]

Anyway, pick up a copy of "Robin Laws Guide to Good Gamemastering". It's a little more lenient than I am in that you **can** run a game with a powergamer.

Got it last week. very good.

Only the DM gets to play with the prestige classes!

Ooh, ooh! A kindred spirit.

I agree with this 100%. PrC's should be a way to flesh the campaign world out, not a way for PC's to become sweet, l337 and Uber.

I think a good PrC should also take something away from a character as well as adding to it, making the character more specialised but less flexible.

And I prefer my PC's to be flexible.

Actually, time for a new thread...

 

[Bendris Noulg]

That's kind of funny (odd)... as far as I'm concerned, any materials outside the core rules need to be house ruled into a game, not house ruled out.

Ditto. Actually, quite a bit in the core rules has to be house ruled in...

Agreed on both counts.

On-topic, anyone joining my group is given the following guidelines:

• The House-Rules are both printed and online; Read them before joining us at the table.
• If you don't like what appears to be restrictions, don't bother joining the group because the conditions are not changing (the current group members like what's been done, they are having fun with it, and it's staying that way).
• Training and in-game justification for multiclassing is always a requirement.
• We don't use published Prestige Classes. Ever. Don't even bother to ask.
• Prestige Classes are designed for the campaign to be specific to the campaign and learned about in-game.
• Not every group has a Prestige Class; Some groups have multiple Prestige Classes. Don't try to guess, you'll likely be wrong.
• Emphasis on Role is more valuable than anything else.