D&D (2024) Rests should be dropped. Stop conflating survival mechanics with resource recovery.

[Bagpuss]

The dice.

Again, if you're not understanding what Im getting at, then ask questions, don't just assume the worst.

Gathering, ideally, would be hooked into travel activities and the chances of getting things (particularly specific things) would be some formula that integrates the players skill in whatever gathering type, the set difficulties of the area being travelled, and the rarity of whats being sought-after.

There is no DM hording the privilege of gathering over the players. They can do it if they're travelling, period. The DM has no say, because its not up to the DM what parts of the game the players can and can't choose to play in the middle of the game.

So no gathering in a dungeon, no gathering in a city, probably no gathering on another plane, even if you are in an area you can gather you have set difficulties and rarity for the terrain type (terrain which the DM decides). Seems the DM still has a huge amount of control over when the players can gather. Where as when the players decide to rest is almost entirely up to them, if the DM says the area is to dangerous to rest in they can retreat to somewhere safer, or cast Rope Trick for a Short Rest, generally you shouldn't be long resting in dangerous situation anyway.

If the DM is that much of a garbage control freak then thats a Session Zero concern to say that gathering and crafting can only be done with sufficient ass kissing, and the players will filter out as appropriate.

Show me on the characters sheet where did the nasty DM hurt you.

I can see some merit in what you are suggesting but it seems to add a lot of book-keeping and dice rolling for very little significant gain. I mean it is great of a CRPG where a computer takes care of all the mechanics and book keeping but seem overly complex for what it is doing the way you describe it.

 

[Bagpuss]

So the first video has some serious pacing issues with their humour but aside from that is predicated on the idea that the DM has encounters that are totally separate from time - merely waiting for the PCs to drop in on them at a time of their choosing. It’s also relies on the idea that random encounters - indeed even combat - are dangerous. Those combats are seen as risk free - hence the party not caring if they happen or not.

As an aside… how is the wizard getting their fireballs back when the DM is throwing random encounters at them while they’re resting?

Because your rest can be interrupted by up to a hour of fighting and you still get the benefits of a long rest, one encounter swiftly dealt with isn't going to do stop you getting all your spells and health back.

Why has the bad guy not just moved on… or completed their nefarious scheme and decimated the nearby kingdom, or decided to mobalise against the tardy foes in force.

Well yes that is more of an issue, I'd just have had the portal close if they didn't follow immediately behind.

The second video (much better delivery) assumes that hp damage represents wounds. Which to be honest I’ve come to realise just isn’t the case… otherwise any amount of non-magical healing doesn’t really make sense. Because non-magical healin leg is good for the game and we need it, hp no longer can refer to wounds beyond a scrapes, nicks, and bruises. I’m ok with that.

Yeah HP never represented physical injuries alone, as long as you have 1 hp, you don't have any debilitating injuries, scraps and bruises at most, and if you don't have 1hp you don't benefit from a Long Rest.

 

[mellored]

Real world potion drinking test.

 

[Emberashh]

So no gathering in a dungeon, no gathering in a city, probably no gathering on another plane,

I didn't say this.

What part of stop assuming and ask questions do you not understand?

Show me on the characters sheet where did the nasty DM hurt you.

You're the one bringing up garbage DMs dude.

I can see some merit in what you are suggesting but it seems to add a lot of book-keeping and dice rolling for very little significant gain.

Dice rolling is fun and actually having a game to play is as well, so weird to act like this is a downside.

And what book keeping? Who said anything about bookkeeping? Why do you keep making up ghosts to argue with instead of arguing with what I actually said?

 

[Bagpuss]

I didn't say this.

You said you can gather while travelling, forgive me if I believed the implication from that is that you couldn't gather while not travelling. Or you wouldn't be able to find X ingredient on say a plane where X doesn't exist, or in a dungeon where it couldn't grow, or a city with the same issues.

What part of stop assuming and ask questions do you not understand?

Maybe explain things clearer.

You're the one bringing up garbage DMs dude.

I don't think it's garbage for the DM to interrupt your long rest if you are doing it in a stupid situation. You're the one claiming it is bad and railroady.

Dice rolling is fun and actually having a game to play is as well, so weird to act like this is a downside.

Dice rolling is fun if there is some interesting consequence. What are the consequence on the gathering roll you want? Get a resource or not? Get more of a resource or less of it? So if you don't get enough you gather some more before adventuring, sounds a lot like grinding.

And what book keeping? Who said anything about bookkeeping? Why do you keep making up ghosts to argue with instead of arguing with what I actually said?

So how do you track the resources you gather? Or the potions you need to recover? Or the mana/stamina?

It seemed a safe assumption that you would need to keep track of these things, but if that isn't the case please explain your idea.

 

[Emberashh]

You said you can gather while travelling

In direct response to you trying to argue with a strawman, which you proceeded to doubledown on by assuming instead of asking questions.

Yes, of course you can gather in dungeons and what have you. The point I was making is that the DM can't just arbitrarily tell you no.

Nor should they be. You keep trying to assert this is an issue, which clearly implies you agree that the DM arbitrarily saying no is not a good thing, and yet when presented with solutions to that problem, you reject them. Thats called making an appeal to futility.

You're the one claiming it is bad and railroady.

Yes, Im the only person in the history of DND to make this claim. There is no dearth of people whove had endless arguments over this exact thing.

/s

Dice rolling is fun if there is some interesting consequence.

No, dice rolling is just fun period. You're employing another fallacy here, btw. False contradiction.

So how do you track the resources you gather? Or the potions you need to recover? Or the mana/stamina?

The same way you track everything else. The character sheet isn't some newfangled concept last I checked.

This, again, is another fallacy. Argument from ignorance.

If you have to keep using fallacious thinking to argue, you should really reconsider if this a conversation you should be participating in.

 

[Bagpuss]

In direct response to you trying to argue with a strawman, which you proceeded to doubledown on by assuming instead of asking questions.

Yes, of course you can gather in dungeons and what have you.

So your verisimilitude has you being able to gather whatever you want wherever you want, regardless of if X resource could logically be there... or does it not really matter what resource you are gathering, that are just resource points towards making mana and stamina potions, it could be fungus in one place or troll toe nail clippings in another but they all just make potions?

The point I was making is that the DM can't just arbitrarily tell you no.

Well they can they are the DM, but arbitrarily isn't great. Still I'm sure there are there are situation where gathering wouldn't be possible, like you don't have the time on a forced march, it in a dangerous situation... at which point finding the time to gather seems a lot like finding the time to rest.

Nor should they be. You keep trying to assert this is an issue, which clearly implies you agree that the DM arbitrarily saying no is not a good thing, and yet when presented with solutions to that problem, you reject them. Thats called making an appeal to futility.

Arbitrarily saying no, isn't a good thing, but it isn't arbitrary to stop rests in the middle of a dangerous environment.

Yes, Im the only person in the history of DND to make this claim. There is no dearth of people whove had endless arguments over this exact thing.

Arguments which implies it isn't settled thing, it isn't a fact just an opinion.

No, dice rolling is just fun period.

Not really, there needs to be some purpose to rolling the maths rocks.

The same way you track everything else. The character sheet isn't some newfangled concept last I checked.

This, again, is another fallacy. Argument from ignorance.

Adding several extra things to track doesn't seem to be fun for most people, it's why so few people track ammo, or encumbrance or even rations anymore. It's partly why the rest mechanic moved being fully healed, as previously seeing if the party was fully healed was a matter of tracking charges on a Wand of Cure Light Wounds, so you knew when to buy a replacement.

 

[Emberashh]

So your verisimilitude has you being able to gather whatever you want wherever you want, regardless of if X resource could logically be there... or does it not really matter what resource you are gathering, that are just resource points towards making mana and stamina potions, it could be fungus in one place or troll toe nail clippings in another but they all just make potions?

As said to another person earlier, if you're going to deliberately troll, just stop.

 

[Bagpuss]

If they ever do explain how this is meant to work could someone explain it too me. Since everything bar the original post has disappeared.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

You could have each features/spells cost a certain amount of XP to recover, given that you give XP for things other than winning fights.

This would make classes that use more at-wills features level up somewhat faster than the ones dependent on powerful yet limited features, like it used to in older-ish editions.