D&D (2024) Rests should be dropped. Stop conflating survival mechanics with resource recovery.

[mamba]

Its not an either/or. Fun comes from a lot of different aspects of a game, including both challenge and attrition.

and at-will refreshes via potion take away attrition

 

[Neonchameleon]

All movement is irrevocable... Unless you have some kind of time travel power.

And yes, it is attrition.
a reduction in numbers usually as a result of resignation, retirement, or death

Pieces never recover in Chess. Resources only ever go down.

That doesn't mean Chess is 100% attrition. Draughts, for example, has arguably more attrition than chess. Yet chess is more fun than draughts because of the things that aren't attrition. And a game of draughts where the pieces moved forwards and backwards rather than diagonally might have just as much attrition. But would be less fun than draughts.

Attrition is used as an enabler in chess. That doesn't make chess 100% attrition. Or mean that it's the only enabler you could use in that type of game.

 

[Emberashh]

and at-will refreshes via potion take away attrition

Only if you're assuming the change in a vacuum and the game hasn't been changed in other aspects to compensate.

I said it before that attrition can come from more than once place. Itd be nice if you acknowledged and engaged that point instead of ignoring it to reiterate your point.

 

[Bagpuss]

...the game designer. Was that a real question or are you too just being obtuse on purpose?

Okay so how are they handed out by the game designer? What mechanism are you using?

 

[Emberashh]

Okay so how are they handed out by the game designer? What mechanism are you using?

Crafting and Gathering mechanics combined with a functional economy system that mirrors the relative rarity of the required components and skill to make them.

In the sort of high fantasy superheroic genre that DND is, by the time time and money are no longer a limiting factor (which if done right are very deep into the endgame), there should be bigger things for the party to worry about then something like resource recovery.

At these levels going nova every encounter shouldn't be a concern because going nova shouldn't even work to solve much of the problems at this level to begin with.

Batman could beat the Riddler within an inch of his life but that doesn't do squat about the sea wall being busted open with bombs, flooding the city. Batman has to do more and be better than just really good in a fight.

 

[mellored]

That doesn't mean Chess is 100% attrition.

Well this is getting into semantics.

But whatever you call it, starting with set resources, and using them up over time, is a challenge.

 

[Remathilis]

No, because by slow natural recovery I mean slow natural recovery. Wasting a week or more after one encounter wouldn't be a viable option, and especially not in a game where time matters. What you can get back passively only negates the need to consume energy for trivial encounters; if you blow your Mana pool on a goblin you're going to need potions or a two week siesta. Stamina would likely come back faster, but would still be in the same boat.

Ok. Now I'm getting it.

5e has an option for slow recovery. Basically, a short rest takes 8 hours, a long rest takes a week. Healing each day cost HD or another resource like magic.

What you're suggesting is something akin to this, with the added ability to buy/make health potions (restore HP), magicka potions (to restore spells) and stamina potions (to restore physical abilities like action surge) to augment the slow rests.

Am I correct?[/QUOTE]

 

[CreamCloud0]

And meanwhile, at no point is resting actually required. Read the topic title. The entire point is to stop conflating resource recovery with survival mechanics.

could you elaborate on what you're actually defining as 'survival mechanics' because what i seem to be parsing your meaning by that is just 'rests'

 

[Bagpuss]

Crafting and Gathering mechanics combined with a functional economy system that mirrors the relative rarity of the required components and skill to make them.

So you are still either incumbent on the DM to control the availability of the resource, or the players can farm as much they like. Also building a functional economy seems a heck of a lot of work, compared to just resting.

 

[Emberashh]

Basically, a short rest takes 8 hours, a long rest takes a week. Healing each day cost HD or another resource like magic.

Thats gritty realism, not slow natural recovery. Two very different things.

And GR as it is in 5e is awful.

magicka potions (to restore spells) and stamina potions (to restore physical abilities like action surge)

The abilities aren't whats restored.

could you elaborate on what you're actually defining as 'survival mechanics'

Eat, sleep, drink, not get too hot or too cold.

So you are still either incumbent on the DM to control the availability of the resource

Did you read past what you quoted or fid you not understand what you read?

or the players can farm as much they like.

Yes, if the players want to spend all their game time farming they should feel free to.

Its not the game's responsibility to stop bad players ruining the game.

Also building a functional economy seems a heck of a lot of work,

So?