Retreating *is* an option!

[MerricB]

Also, the encounter rules make the players think that every encounter is one they can win, consuming 20% of their resources.

That is badly incorrect. The encounter rules actually have a range of difficulties associated with them, including 5% of APL+5 or "the party is likely to die" encounters.

This is emphasized in recent D&D adventures (Sons of Gruumsh, Red Hand of Doom, The Twilight Tomb).

I happen to have a copy of The Twilight Tomb here. An adventure for 3rd level PCs, it has ELs of 1/2 (x2), 1 (x1), 2 (x3), 3 (x5), 4 (x4), 5 (x7), 6 (x6), 7 (x1), 8 (x1)

 

[GwydapLlew]

We are, after all, talking about an encounter that is too tough for you as the primary scenario, and is probably more mobile than you and knows the lay of the land to boot. If the DM decides that the enemy smells weakness and is determined, anything short of a Teleport can easily fail as more than a temporary measure.

This is true. That's why the majority of my encounters are designed to not singlemindedly hammering the party into oblivion. Any DM can find a reason to push a party into TPK; a good DM (IMO) finds reasons to not without it looking like he is giving the party a pass.

"Gee, if those wolves fight to the last hit point when they could have retreated in this campaign, why should these minotaurs not hunt us all down and slaughter now that they have reason to believe that we are weak?"

Animals should not fight to the last hit point unless their description states that they would. Most animals have a flight reflex - why continue the fight against a dangerous foe when survival still means that it'll be that much harder to catch a meal tomorrow?

Intelligent creatures have even more reasons than animals not to pursue. Granted, if the encounter is set up as, "Monster A, B, and C are in Area 28. They guard pie and cake. They will pursue and kill anyone who enters the room," then yes, retreat is generally not an option.

"Monster A, B, and C are in Area 28. They are eating a meal and react badly to disturbances," does not, however, require the DM to hunt down and destroy interlopers.

 

[MerricB]

Retreating isn't always going to work. However, it's in your interest to always consider the possibility. You also really, really need to pay attention to what's going on.

D&D is about confronting and overcoming unusual situations. A game where it's nothing but "orcs attack" time after time after time gets boring very quickly. Each encounter is likely to be different from the last.

Cheers!

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Tanglefoot bags, Rock to Mud, iron caltrops, showers of arrows, there are a ton of ways to keep foes from chasing wildly after you. Add in haste, fly, expeditious retreat, dimension door, and other such spells, retreating is an option, even if it's a full withdrawl followed by step by step fighting withdrawl.

Don't forget wall spells. Those suckers block up a dungeon corridor so fast. You mention dimension door. That's the #1 retreat option for most groups it seems.

 

[Thurbane]

Did the defeated foe have magical or valuable gear on him? Thats would explain a large part of why the party kept attacking. No one wants to see the financial rewards of a hard fought battle ride off into the sunset without some effort at keeping it.

But on the whole, I do agree that the majority of PCs I have gamed with (myself included) often choose not to retreat when it is abundantly clear that retreat is probably the best option.

I believe there are four factors in play:

1. Pride - to retreat is to show weakness, in some peoples minds. They adopt a "Death before dishonour!" mentality.

2. Naievity - the beleief that the Dm won't really kill everyone.

3. Greed - they don't want to give up potential loot.

4. Despair - they believe that the whole situation is hopeless, and retreat is not even possible.

 

[Chimera]

Another, largely ignored facet of retreat is Terrain.

How often, in movies, do you see people 'fade off into the trees'? How often are they pursued when they do? How about urban settings?

There is a lot of risk in running off alone into the trees or alleys to chase down an opponent. Unfortunately, this is not as well conveyed with the normal rules and mind-set as it should be. All too often, I see chases treated as if the entire world was a flat, clear surface. No chance to hide, no chance to lose your chaser, no chance to fool them as to which direction you went.

In that (very unrealistic) circumstance, then heck yes, the faster move always wins.

 

[Ranger REG]

Today, only scurvy landlubbers retreat!

Hah! Seen many a pirate ship who sailed toward what seemed to be a simple merchant ship only to be ambushed by seemingly dead sailors. Like beaten rats they are, matey, they scurried back to their ship, turned hardabout, and with favorable wind, escaped with their pride broken and some of their bodies attached. Arr.

P.S. Dude, why am I talking like a pirate? :\

 

[merelycompetent]

A few episodes back, in MerelyCompetent's weekly game:

Our heroes ran into the PC meatshield's bigger, badder brother: A half-dragon, half-ogre mage (they think) monk/multi-classed monstrosity. Average PC level: 11. EL: Higher than them, but not into certain TPK. To make a long story short, they went through the mooks like a flametongue through butter, saw big brother waiting for them, and ran away screaming like little girls. Big brother had terrain (with more mooks), planning, and Dad's spells backing him up. He also ripped a big old oak tree out of the ground one-handed to use as a makeshift club. As a DM, I didn't expect that to scare them quite so badly

Several more episodes back:

Our heroes stomped the living Arrr! out of some orc barbarian mercs with magical support, accepted the survivors' surrenders, and made them promise to never return to civilized lands again. They ambushed the poor orcs rather cleverly (bloody bow-specializing ranger gacked the sentries while the half-dragon meatshield snuck in and bent the magical support into pretzels, with the help of the cleric's & wizard's spells). Average PC level: 8. EL: Equivalent to PCs at the start. PCs planned and executed a skillful ambush, using terrain to their advantage. The orcs had chosen an excellent and defensible camping site with sentries and random patrols, but the PCs successfully scouted them out and used magic + skills to overcome the orcs' advantages.

I look forward to them luring their opponents into chasing them off into the trees. That ranger will make mincemeat out of them, if the monk doesn't get them first. And the cleric just discovered the joys of Divine Power + Righteous Might.

PC moral of this story: My players wisely included Retreating as an option in their bag of tricks. They convinced the NPC wizard to memorize a few Wall spells (and always keeps one on a scroll), the PC cleric keeps Sanctuary and a few others in reserve (some on scrolls), the half-dragon monk pulls bodies out of trouble, the ranger lays down covering fire, etc. Metagame-wise, the character builds reflect this. This is with the understanding that they may find themselves in a spot they can't retreat from, so negotiating a surrender is a *good* thing.

DM moral of this story: DMs can encourage or discourage certain kinds of behavior in the players. I strongly encourage my players, in this heroic high magic campaign, to get away from the fight-to-the-death mentality. If they slaughter surrendered opponents all the time, word gets around and NPCs stop being hospitable, plus enemies stop surrendering. If they accept surrenders, most of their enemies will be glad to live through it -- and will run away if encountered again. There are, however, the exceptions to keep the PCs on their toes. And it doesn't prevent them from biting off more than they can chew. The game is, after all, about the players' choices in the DM's world.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Very good points, Chimera.

In the real world, if a bunch of bandits (or would be heroes) scatters into the woods I would be hesitant to pursue aggressively. In real life every barely competent warrior has some amount of sneak attack skill and being on the receiving end of a critical hit is a dire event. What are the odds that if I run around those rocks there is someone waiting who has a decent chance of planting a javelin in my throat from 9 1/2 feet away? I just won the battle. Should I risk a 4% chance of instant (and permenant death) for a little extra gravy in the spoils?

In D&D, if you could not beat me here in the initial clash, then my odds of beating you out there while you all are scattered amongst the trees are even higher. As long as I keep within reach of a buddy, even receiving an unlucky critical that takes me down is an easily manageable risk. Rogues can make the calculus a bit more complicated, but that is more of a corner case than the norm.