Retrieving Scrolls and Quick Draw

kreynolds said:


Since it makes no distinction, what about...

[...]

I'm not trying to be merely argumentative. I just think that a distinction has to be made at some point. Otherwise, this will get out of hand very quickly.

An improvised weapon is still a weapon, and you do not necessarily need to use an improvised weapon as a weapon. You could easily rule that anything that is stored in an appropriate fashion to be a possible weapon (e.g. a spyglass, wand or scroll tucked in belt, etc.) could have QD applied. As I said above, you could theoretically retrieve an appropriately located scroll case and bash someone with it using quickdraw.

-Fletch!
 

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kreynolds said:


Since it makes no distinction, what about...

1) a potion?
2) a flask of oil, alchemists fire, etc.?
3) a torch?
4) a spellbook?
5) a rope?
6) a pair of manacles?
7) a pair of goggles?
8) a ring?
9) an amulet?
10) a brooch?
11) a bedroll?
12) a grappling hook?
13) a shovel?
14) a spyglass?

I'm not trying to be merely argumentative. I just think that a distinction has to be made at some point. Otherwise, this will get out of hand very quickly.

Agreed, but I don't see the Quickdraw feat as being *so* useful that I would make a spellcaster take it once for pulling out a wand and then a second time for weapons. Someone made mention that since it said it applied only to weapons then you couldn't use it for this purpose. I was just trying to point out that even with weapons it's letting someone with the feat use it in quite different ways, and thus, IF you would let a spellcaster use it for wands then it isn't that different from letting someone pull out a greatsword or a dagger as a free action.

The thing that makes a distinction for me is that it has to be readily available, so if that shovel wasn't specifically designated (previously) as being in a "sheath" then no quickdrawing it.

IceBear
 
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kreynolds said:


Since it makes no distinction, what about...

1) a potion?
2) a flask of oil, alchemists fire, etc.?
.
.


I'm not trying to be merely argumentative. I just think that a distinction has to be made at some point. Otherwise, this will get out of hand very quickly.


Ah... a voice of reason!


Perhaps people need to take a half a second to think about the action of pulling out a scroll and (heres the kicker) unrolling it so that its open and can be read.

I can quick draw a rolled up news paper to wack my dogs butt but that actions a far cry different than quick drawing it to see box score from the previous nights game.
 

Although it is not allowable in the core rules, I would allow a wizard with the Quickdraw feat to use it on readily accessible scrolls, wands, and potions (there's be a limit to the number of readily accessible ones though--they'd have to be in some kind of belt or bandolier) as well as weapons.

Although the feat has some use, it's hardly going to break the game if it's not constantly monitored. Really, whatever kreynolds is saying, this is not Expert Tactician, Spirited Charge, or Quicker than the Eye we're discussing--heck it's not even cleave, great cleave, or whirlwind attack. Quickdraw can be pushed well past its written limits without becoming a "must have" feat. As written, it's more comparable to Toughness (useful in some situations; useless in most) than the power feats.
 

Fisk said:



Ah... a voice of reason!


Perhaps people need to take a half a second to think about the action of pulling out a scroll and (heres the kicker) unrolling it so that its open and can be read.

I can quick draw a rolled up news paper to wack my dogs butt but that actions a far cry different than quick drawing it to see box score from the previous nights game.

Ah, but I wouldn't have allowed the scroll to be read with the quickdraw action - he just has the scroll in hand as the free action (as opposed to a move-eq to get it). He still has to spend the time to use it.

Again, I wouldn't allow the quick draw feat to be used on any item that wasn't "specially" prepared to be quickdrawn

IceBear
 

When I look at the list that kreynolds presented, I'd say most of those are reasonable to have qded as long as their stored in a ready to access location.

I mean if a guy can find a scroll on his person, pull it out, unfurl it, and then read it in 6 secs normally!! then I'd say allowing quickdraw from it is not a big stretch at all:)
 

Elder-Basilisk said:
Really, whatever kreynolds is saying, this is not Expert Tactician, Spirited Charge, or Quicker than the Eye we're discussing

First of all, your tone needs work. It's uncalled for. I was merely pointing out that this is not such a clear cut topic, that making an on-the-fly ruling in regards to this feat is pretty risky.

Secondly, there's a lot of room for time wasting abuse here. As mkletch point out, a loop-hole exists. Just about anything can be treated as an improvised weapon, so quickdraw automatically applies to just about everything. Personally, it's not worth it to me to make up that list. Besides, why do you need a feat to do this when a common non-magical item can do it for you? I think that's why those items exist; to prevent something like this from happening.
 

Stalker0 said:
When I look at the list that kreynolds presented, I'd say most of those are reasonable to have qded as long as their stored in a ready to access location.

You mean like in a scroll bandolier? Yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with that either. :D
 

Elder-Basilisk said:
Although the feat has some use, it's hardly going to break the game if it's not constantly monitored. Really, whatever kreynolds is saying, this is not Expert Tactician, Spirited Charge, or Quicker than the Eye we're discussing--heck it's not even cleave, great cleave, or whirlwind attack. Quickdraw can be pushed well past its written limits without becoming a "must have" feat. As written, it's more comparable to Toughness (useful in some situations; useless in most) than the power feats.

Ooh, I think you underrate quickdraw pretty severely. Frankly, if the dm enforces the "drawing weapons is a MEA" rule, the quickdraw feat becomes highly useful in any combat that breaks out at close range once you have multiple attacks- and this could be as early as first level for a two-weapon fighter.

On the topic of quickdrawing scrolls: I wouldn't allow it, but I wouldn't have a problem with a character taking a feat that allowed scrolls to be readied as a free action. However, I also agree with kreynolds that a common magic item saves you a feat for other things; it's prolly a better investment.
 

I still don't see the big deal with letting a mage pull out a wand or scroll (the scroll is just in hand, it still has to be unfurled and read) with the Quick Draw. Yes, I would have the PCs declare any items that were easily accessible, and it would have to be a reasonable amount. If a mage wanted to take this feat, instead of one better suited to being a mage, why do I want to screw him even more :)

IceBear
 

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