D&D 5E Revamped Ability Score Bonuses

[discosoc]

Exactly, which is why roll-under worked there. It's 3e that wrecked it, as I noted before.

Lanefan

Yeah, you're right. I misread your comment while typing out my response earlier, so I'm sorry.

 

[Grazzt]

Exactly.

The other thing that would have to be figured out (I guess) is, if using 5e rules, does proficiency bonus remain? I mean, a 1st-level level fighter with Str 18 would already be +8 to hit. Add in prof bonus and it goes to +10. Also, removing prof bonus would mean a Str 18 fighter would be +8 to hit at 1st level and the same at say 10th level (barring magic items or whatever).

 

[TheCosmicKid]

We do this sort of thing all the time. For a particularly difficult Dex check, for example, you might need to roll under half your Dex. And true, this would make a roll-under meaningful if the stat you're rolling against is in the mid-20's...but it's uncommon enough that it doesn't save the system.

I'm just saying, if it is common enough, it does save the system. Strong GURPS characters regularly have skill values in the mid-20s, and that's completely justifiable. For weapon skills, especially, given how you have to voluntarily take a penalty to give your target a penalty to its defense roll.

 

[Capn Charlie]

I really like proficiency bonus and feel like it could stay, but am dubious of roll under mechanics.

 

[redrick]

We do this sort of thing all the time. For a particularly difficult Dex check, for example, you might need to roll under half your Dex. And true, this would make a roll-under meaningful if the stat you're rolling against is in the mid-20's...but it's uncommon enough that it doesn't save the system.

This erases the benefit of odd ability scores, though, which seems to be the benefit to a straight roll under.

Of course, within 5e bounded accuracy, rolling under the ability score is too easy — especially if you want to keep some sort of skill system intact. Maxing a stat in D&D still provides a 20% chance of failure on an easy check without proficiency. That's the same as rolling under a 16, which is the starting point for at least one stat on your average D&D character. And by 6th or 8th level, they'll be at 95% chance success.

Odd ability scores are probably my biggest complaint with 5e. Odd scores in stats that won't be advancing (anything but your top two stats, basically), are meaningless. Players with system knowledge will always avoid them, whereas beginning players will take the standard array and the basic human and wind up with a 9, 11, 13, 14,15,16. That pointlessly penalizes the beginner. 4d6 (drop lowest) is not my cup of tea, especially when players are unwilling to be saddled with the rare skunk roll. I'm sure you roll 3d6 with no cop-outs, but I don't think that's the group I game with.

 

[Staccat0]

I often think making Perception an ability score would clean things up a lot for me. Perception is a pretty useful saving throw and attaching ranged attacks to it would make DEX less of a no-brainer and give STR a boost.

Never tried it though. Too lazy to try to make a nice character sheet.

 

[Lanefan]

This erases the benefit of odd ability scores, though, which seems to be the benefit to a straight roll under.

Only when it's halved. Sometimes it's thirded. And most of the time it's straight roll-under or with a small + or - modifier.

Of course, within 5e bounded accuracy, rolling under the ability score is too easy — especially if you want to keep some sort of skill system intact. Maxing a stat in D&D still provides a 20% chance of failure on an easy check without proficiency. That's the same as rolling under a 16, which is the starting point for at least one stat on your average D&D character. And by 6th or 8th level, they'll be at 95% chance success.

All true. The beauty of roll-under, however, is that not everyone is going to max out the same stats and not all rolls are going to hit the same stat. So sure, sometimes someone will have a 95% chance of hitting it, but not all the time.

Odd ability scores are probably my biggest complaint with 5e. Odd scores in stats that won't be advancing (anything but your top two stats, basically), are meaningless. Players with system knowledge will always avoid them, whereas beginning players will take the standard array and the basic human and wind up with a 9, 11, 13, 14,15,16. That pointlessly penalizes the beginner. 4d6 (drop lowest) is not my cup of tea, especially when players are unwilling to be saddled with the rare skunk roll. I'm sure you roll 3d6 with no cop-outs, but I don't think that's the group I game with.

We roll every time - point buy and array systems are not for us. And sometimes a 'skunk roll' is what ends up making a character fun/memorable/playable for as long as it lasts, depending where it gets put (I recommend wisdom!). But our current game rolls 5d6 drop 2, if I ever switch to 5e I'll probably go with 4d6 drop 1 or a near variant.

Lanefan