Review: Advanced Players Manual (Long)
- Thread starter Crothian
- Start date
Thanks for the review Crothian!
For my final question...
I have the option to get either the Psychics handbook or the PDF of the Advanced Players Manual. Does the APM have enough of the GR psychic crunch to make it a decent cover for the actual Psy HB? Because so far price is about the same and it looks like I get a stack more stuff to plunder with the APM.
For my final question...
I have the option to get either the Psychics handbook or the PDF of the Advanced Players Manual. Does the APM have enough of the GR psychic crunch to make it a decent cover for the actual Psy HB? Because so far price is about the same and it looks like I get a stack more stuff to plunder with the APM.
Crothian
First Post
Stone Dog said:
I don't have the Psychic Handbook to see what they cut for the APM, so I really can't answer that. There is enough info in the APM to play and use the class. There is about 35 pages of info in the APM so maybe compaire that to how big the Psychic Handbook is......
coyote6
Adventurer
The point-based races section seems kind of cool, except for one thing: the "whatever blood" trait used for half-races.
Perhaps I missed a description, but all it seems to do is make it so one is treated as a "whatever" -- elf, orc, dwarf, etc.; you then can "buy" specific abilities -- bonus to skills, darkvision, etc. -- from those races, which have their own have separate costs. Which is fine. Though it doesn't seem like a full blooded elf paid any points to get elf abilities, but whatever.
The problem is the costs.
Example: the elf blood modifier is 6 pts; the elf blood ability is six points (total cost: 12 points). Hmm, kind of steep, just to be able to buy abilities that elves have, without paying an "initiation fee", and use elf-only magic items and qualify for arcane archer.
Then you get to orc blood. 10 pts as a modifier, 14 pts as an ability. So, what does getting it get you? NOTHING. Oh, wait. You get to buy darkvision, for six points. Hey, I got an idea -- be a half-dwarf (dwarf blood modifier: 6 pts, dwarf blood ability: 3 pts), and buy darkvision for the same cost, and have 15 pts left over.
The system was designed so that each race's abilities cost 30 pts, total. But at least some of the costs were set based not on how valuable they are, but what cost would get those races to add up to the arbitrarily chosen value of 30.
In other words, it seems like the system goes out of its way to try to make all the races numerically equal, even when one race is spending 80% of its points on nothing.
It's a bloody variant, they couldn't just admit that dwarves & elves are maybe slightly more powerful than half-orcs? And thus provide a way to make 'em slightly more interesting & powerful?
It makes me suspicious of the rest of the numbers, too.
Okay, rant over.
The spells are really neat.
It's not as cool a book as Advanced Bestiary, but I'm glad I bought the book, overall.
Perhaps I missed a description, but all it seems to do is make it so one is treated as a "whatever" -- elf, orc, dwarf, etc.; you then can "buy" specific abilities -- bonus to skills, darkvision, etc. -- from those races, which have their own have separate costs. Which is fine. Though it doesn't seem like a full blooded elf paid any points to get elf abilities, but whatever.
The problem is the costs.
Example: the elf blood modifier is 6 pts; the elf blood ability is six points (total cost: 12 points). Hmm, kind of steep, just to be able to buy abilities that elves have, without paying an "initiation fee", and use elf-only magic items and qualify for arcane archer.
Then you get to orc blood. 10 pts as a modifier, 14 pts as an ability. So, what does getting it get you? NOTHING. Oh, wait. You get to buy darkvision, for six points. Hey, I got an idea -- be a half-dwarf (dwarf blood modifier: 6 pts, dwarf blood ability: 3 pts), and buy darkvision for the same cost, and have 15 pts left over.
The system was designed so that each race's abilities cost 30 pts, total. But at least some of the costs were set based not on how valuable they are, but what cost would get those races to add up to the arbitrarily chosen value of 30.
In other words, it seems like the system goes out of its way to try to make all the races numerically equal, even when one race is spending 80% of its points on nothing.
It's a bloody variant, they couldn't just admit that dwarves & elves are maybe slightly more powerful than half-orcs? And thus provide a way to make 'em slightly more interesting & powerful?
It makes me suspicious of the rest of the numbers, too.
Okay, rant over.
The spells are really neat.
It's not as cool a book as Advanced Bestiary, but I'm glad I bought the book, overall.
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
coyote6 said:
That's an interesting point.
It's been a while since I've looked over BESM d20, but last I recall, it noted and showed in point terms, that the half-orc was indeed less powerful than the other races with a negative net cost.
Crothian
First Post
I imagine they had a choice: rewrite the PHB and rebalance the races or create a system that works with the PHB and the races are they are defined there.
They went consertaive to make the system work with what most people are using. I think it would be less useful overall if they redefined the basic races since most people wouldn't want to do that.
They went consertaive to make the system work with what most people are using. I think it would be less useful overall if they redefined the basic races since most people wouldn't want to do that.
I bought it and the sections on the 'weaver and threads is exactly what I am looking for. I found some of the threads a bit close in concept for comfort and have no idea what the terms factorums, gemini, mendicant, or surcease mean in these contexts.
Though I really don't like luck in any form, this is the best implemation yet.
The only section I wish wasn't there was the mass combat. That is more of a DM thing.
Though I really don't like luck in any form, this is the best implemation yet.
The only section I wish wasn't there was the mass combat. That is more of a DM thing.
I had this bound today and found a couple things odd- all the page numbers are on the inside edge of the pages. 
I would give it a 4- if the mass combat rules were replaced with something else more useful it would earn a 5.
Edit- turns out the place I had it bound forgot to add page 1.
I would give it a 4- if the mass combat rules were replaced with something else more useful it would earn a 5.
Edit- turns out the place I had it bound forgot to add page 1.
Last edited:
Li Shenron
Legend
A question for Crothian
Could you check up the alignment scores? It seems plain odd to me that each axis Good/Evil and Law/Chaos ranges from 1 to 21 as you wrote:
1-7 Evil (7 of 21)
8-13 Neutral (6 of 21)
14-21 Good (8 of 21)
and not instead
1-7 Evil (7 of 21)
8-14 Neutral (7 of 21)
15-21 Good (7 of 21)
It's a minor thing, but doesn't make sense to if they didn't make it equal...
Could you check up the alignment scores? It seems plain odd to me that each axis Good/Evil and Law/Chaos ranges from 1 to 21 as you wrote:
1-7 Evil (7 of 21)
8-13 Neutral (6 of 21)
14-21 Good (8 of 21)
and not instead
1-7 Evil (7 of 21)
8-14 Neutral (7 of 21)
15-21 Good (7 of 21)
It's a minor thing, but doesn't make sense to if they didn't make it equal...
