D&D (2024) Revised 6E prediction thread

Scribe

Legend
So something thats come up here around the 'when' (and in other threads) is when there is just too much content, or the subclasses have been exhausted or whatever.

Looking at lists I can find of 3/3.5 prestige classes, and 4e/5e Subclasses (are these the same? I bailed out on 4e completely, 100% not my thing) it would seem we are nowhere close to the bloat of 3e (over 700!) , while 5e probably has more than 4e already based on the list I found.

That said 5e is bloated on its own, by having Domains and Schools inflate the counts for Cleric and Wizard when I dont really like that as a 'subclass' anyway.

Do people find issue with subclasses? While a few may be perhaps too strong, and there is some power creep, I personally love Prestige Class/Sub Class mechaics.
 

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Sacrosanct

Legend
So something thats come up here around the 'when' (and in other threads) is when there is just too much content, or the subclasses have been exhausted or whatever.

Looking at lists I can find of 3/3.5 prestige classes, and 4e/5e Subclasses (are these the same? I bailed out on 4e completely, 100% not my thing) it would seem we are nowhere close to the bloat of 3e (over 700!) , while 5e probably has more than 4e already based on the list I found.

That said 5e is bloated on its own, by having Domains and Schools inflate the counts for Cleric and Wizard when I dont really like that as a 'subclass' anyway.

Do people find issue with subclasses? While a few may be perhaps too strong, and there is some power creep, I personally love Prestige Class/Sub Class mechaics.
When you have subclasses that step on the toes of other classes/subclasses, it's a pretty good sign you're starting to run out of concepts. Is 5e there? I personally think it's getting close (although I think there still needs to be a shaman and a warlord to please those fans), and I admit this is just my feeling and others have differing opinions. As I've said a couple times upthread, I think by having a slow rollout has helped a lot to keep 5e going, and going strong for so long. If it has the release calendar of earlier editions, we would have burned through everything a while ago and what would be left?
 

Scribe

Legend
When you have subclasses that step on the toes of other classes/subclasses, it's a pretty good sign you're starting to run out of concepts. Is 5e there? I personally think it's getting close (although I think there still needs to be a shaman and a warlord to please those fans), and I admit this is just my feeling and others have differing opinions. As I've said a couple times upthread, I think by having a slow rollout has helped a lot to keep 5e going, and going strong for so long. If it has the release calendar of earlier editions, we would have burned through everything a while ago and what would be left?
They could explore outside the Sword Coast?

And honestly Planescape is just sitting there. Waiting. You want to see race diversity, class diversity, a reason to have alignment matter (I do! lol) you set up a nice year long expansion for the glorious Great Wheel, Outlands, and Sigil. :D
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
They could explore outside the Sword Coast?

And honestly Planescape is just sitting there. Waiting. You want to see race diversity, class diversity, a reason to have alignment matter (I do! lol) you set up a nice year long expansion for the glorious Great Wheel, Outlands, and Sigil. :D

Honestly I think that's where the future of sales is gonna lie with 5e. Planescape, Darksun, and Dragonlance have enough fans that if you put out a setting book with some additional sublcasses for each, they will still sell pretty well. But what happens after that? That's where I see things getting dicey. The more obscure and niche of a setting/class you go, the less overall interest there will be, and that's when sales numbers start to slip.

That said, at the rate of settings being release, those three book could take another 3 years lol
 

kenada

Legend
Supporter
While I agree with this, that is why I think such changes don't warrant a "6e," but a "5.5e" at most. To similar to be called an edition change IMO
I liken it to the edition changes of Call of Cthulhu (where classic adventures can be run in newer editions). If WotC revs the core books, it’s worth calling it a new edition. They can (and should) fix problems, but it should retain the spirit of the existing system. Tying edition changes to major overhauls doesn’t strike me as good for the game. It risks alienating the existing playerbase, and it makes addressing actual problems more difficult (because you can’t just issue a revised edition to address them).
 



jgsugden

Legend
We've reached a point where I would not mind a REVISED PHB that tweaked a few rules, feats, spells, etc..., I do not think it is necessary, nor do I feel that they've run out of places to go with 5E. I'd be happy if it ran another decade.
 

I don't expect to see 6e any time soon, for the 'goose laying the golden eggs' reason listed above. And beside, while I haven't played all the way to level 20 in 5e, as far as i can see there's nothing cripplingly wrong with the system yet. Part of this is obviously due to the slow release pace and resultant relatively small number of player options compared to previous editions, which reduces the scope for broken stuff to slip through the next and PC design becoming a separate system mastery minigame. But the basic maths is holding up in a way that (for example) 3e failed to do at high levels.

There's stuff that I think 5e could do better, naturally. Aside from issues with individual spells or subclasses (there's always going to be those), there's a few issues around bonus actions, Str is borderline worthless for anyone who's not a Str warrior, there's too few points at which you can make character customisation choices, the Warlock is too one-note, polymorph is painful to use (as it has been in every edition, to be fair), a few skills badly need tidying up (has anyone ever gotten meaningful use out of Medicine?), Inspiration is pretty wishy-washy and could use a boost and possibly alternate 'plot twist!' type uses alongside the +1d6 default, the race/lineage/etc issue needs to be resolved, and so on and so on.

But all this is pretty small bikkies, to be honest, and the cost of developing a 6e to address these issues is arguably higher than the cost of just leaving them alone. WotC (if they're smart) are probably very wary of putting out a 6e which is just 5.5e (let alone an actual 5.5 or revised PHB...), after the ... controversial ... release and reception of 3.5e or 4e Essentials. I reckon they'll probably just continue releasing optional rules in upcoming 'Everything' books for a while yet, and let individual groups take what they want. I wouldn't be surprised, for example, to see a 5e Dark Sun iteration spawn a set of optional 'hard survival mode' optional rules which will then appear in some upcoming Everything book. Or horror/corruption rules spun off a 5e Ravenloft. Or even 'mercy mode' rules that cut down lethality and emphasise storytelling for something like a talking animal/fairy tale or kids-at-wizards-school setting.

I find it really bewildering to hear people saying that WotC have run out of subclass concepts though. Jeez, I could think of a dozen off the top of my head. And that's WITHOUT going into a very non-standard setting like Dark Sun or Planescape or Spelljammer which has its own set of archetypes, or going into game-mechanical places that WotC has thus far refused to tread, like subclasses that remove some of the base class features in exchange for better subclass features (a non-spellcasting implementation of the bard or ranger, for instance, or an unarmored cloistered cleric type), or subclasses that use things like hit dice or inspiration dice to fuel abilities.
 


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