Revised CRs/ECLs continuation thread

[Upper_Krust]

Hi kreynolds mate!

Apologies for the slow reply.

How very interesting. Out of curiousity, what did you come up with for the tiefling and aasimar? Again, I can't remember my numbers, but I know that both were really close to 0.5.

Aasimar (ECL) +0.6305
Tiefling (ECL) +0.4305

Also, here's a question. When determining the ECL of a genasi, do you factor character wealth into that? After all, with the genasi at +1, the ECL modifier is used to determine how much character wealth you get. I think I have my wires crossed right now, at least in regards to this little tid-bit.

Right enough. If you were boosting the Genasi to +1 (or +1.3) remember that +0.2 of that figure will comprise PC wealth.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Eä mate!

Hope you have been keeping well since last we spoke!?

Well... It has been a while, but right now I am more into the WoD-system than D&D and because I am playing in a Vampire: The Masquerade campaign, I haven't been too busy with considering UK's system. However:

As long as you are having fun thats the main thing.

There has been some discussion on SLAs inflating, especially when you get too many of them with powers whose sum is greater than its parts. I believe I can propose something here than could work. The problem as I see it is that the cost of SLAs is linear to its number: i.e. the cost for three CL 5 SL 3 abilities is the same as the cost for four CL 5 SL 3 abilities divided by four and then multiplied by three. In my opinion this should not be the case!

Why not though? Spellcasting Level and Spell Level are the only variables available to us.

A way to work around this would be to add a cost to the number of SLAs (possibly based on spell level) and always count the lowest level spell first, so that it will be increasingly costy to take a lot of higher level abilities. After all, it is by this principle level advancement works.

Please tell what you think of this idea, and if you find it interesting, I would be happy to offer some advice on different mechanics for doing this, even construing one.

I have a Design Parameter for determining Spell-like Abilities which accomplishes much the same and limits both spell casting level and the number of spells of a certain level.

Essentially you allow one SLA per Hit Dice, but the spell level permissable must be available to a spellcaster of each particular level.

eg. A 13HD Outsider could have 13 SLA. Its first must be available to a 1st-level spellcaster; the second to a 2nd-level spellcaster; etc.

Theres a lot more to it than that but I am not going into details now.

Just trust me, its sweet.

 

[-Eä-]

'f course I am keeping well! And I hope all of you are as well! My vacation has just started and the weather is excellent and my Vampire group is getting more and more absurd - what more could one ask for (-;

By the way, UK: I think your design parameters do the trick in that regard. Is there a link to the fourth version of the CR-EL document? How is your homepage growing? I am currently making one myself, based on a universe a friend of mine and I have made and a pun on the universe in the Matrix.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Eä mate!

Tried to post this yesterday but the boards were down.

'f course I am keeping well!

Glad to hear it!

And I hope all of you are as well!

Not too bad thanks for asking.

My vacation has just started and the weather is excellent and my Vampire group is getting more and more absurd - what more could one ask for (-;

The Infinity Gauntlet.

By the way, UK: I think your design parameters do the trick in that regard.

You know its makes sense.

Is there a link to the fourth version of the CR-EL document?

No because I haven't finished it yet. It can sometimes be complicated uncompliacting things.

I may release a 4.0 beta to a select few people herein (within a day or two) to iron out the creases before posting the entire pdf for download.

I doubt I will have finished the revised CRs list if I go with the beta release prior to the full pdf.

I so do not (and will not) want to even contemplate a Version 5. So Version 4 will be 'it'.

How is your homepage growing?

Its still on the drawing board. When I have some significant previews I want to reveal I will get it sorted.

I am currently making one myself, based on a universe a friend of mine and I have made and a pun on the universe in the Matrix.

When you get it finished post the link...even if its in Norwegian.

 

[Knight Otu]

Theres a lot more to it than that but I am not going into details now.

I trust you take into account things like XP costs and costly components, which spell-like abilities do not have?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Knight Otu mate!

I trust you take into account things like XP costs and costly components, which spell-like abilities do not have?

Under my auspices Monsters with spell-like abilities with an XP component pay must pay the cost out of their...'spirit' shall we say.

Don't want to go into Immortals Handbook details at this juncture I am sure you will understand.

 

[Tywyll]

Anyone done this already?

Is there a more current version of this doc? Has anyone converted the monsters out of books like Book of Vile Darkness or anything similar? Has anyone done a rough spread for the NPCs of various levels? I am interested in trying the system out, but don't want to have to figure all the new monsters I am planning on using (like in MM2). Just curious if anyone has done the work already.

Thanks.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

Okay I had a loot at the Arch Demons in the BoVD.

Using V.4 I tentatively worked them out at:

Demogorgon: CR 63
Graz'zt: CR 49
Juiblex: CR 46
Orcus: CR 59
Yeenoghu: CR 50

So that would mean for instance Graz'zt would be a Tough Fight (EL +2) for a Party of 4-5 33rd-level characters and a Difficult Fight (EL +4) for a Party of 4-5 24th-level characters.

 

[Knight Otu]

Okay I had a loot at the Arch Demons in the BoVD.

Poor Arch Demons, getting looted for no good reason.

Back to the XP costs for a while, if I may... If you were increasing the level of a spell to compensate for the loss of the XP components (I do see that you're doing something different, but that's not important for my question ), how many XP would be equivalent of a spell level? Based on the ELH, I took a value of 200 XP, which does seem to be a good guess, but I wanted to hear your opinion.

(I'm using this for my revision of my planar ruler template, in case this is important)

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Knight Otu mate!

Poor Arch Demons, getting looted for no good reason.

I was simply trying to rectify my financial situation.

Back to the XP costs for a while, if I may... If you were increasing the level of a spell to compensate for the loss of the XP components (I do see that you're doing something different, but that's not important for my question ), how many XP would be equivalent of a spell level? Based on the ELH, I took a value of 200 XP, which does seem to be a good guess, but I wanted to hear your opinion.

(I'm using this for my revision of my planar ruler template, in case this is important)

Well I could see 200 probably working...

*goes away and checks PHB and ELH*

...possibly even 100? Or 500?

Might be easier if we have a list of spells with XP components:

Atonement: 500
Awaken: 250
Commune: 100
Greater Restoration: 500
Limited Wish: 300*
Miracle: 5000*
Permanancy: 500/Spell level
Simulcrum: 1000
Vision: 100
Wish: 5000*

Create Living Vault: 20,000 (DC 58: 13th-level)
Damnation: 2000 (DC 97: 17th-level)
Dire Winter: 10,000 (DC 319: 39th-level)
etc.

Looking at all that and the spell factors for epic spells I would go with 500. But it perhaps bears further investigation...?