Revised Stealth rules - What happened to the "In combat, creatures paying attention"?

[DNH]

In the original rules for Stealth, the PHB states that you can hide from a distracted creature but that "in combat, creatures are assumed to be paying attention in all directions." When we get to the revised rules, it says about Stealth checks against creatures *outside* combat but there is no longer any mention of what happens *in* combat. Do we assume that the former rule, that creatures are paying attention in all directions, still applies?

 

[KarinsDad]

Yes, it's just worded slightly different, so that is implied, not explicitly stated:

You can make a Stealth check against an enemy only if you have superior cover or total concealment against the enemy or if you’re outside the enemy’s line of sight. Outside combat, the DM can allow you to make a Stealth check against a distracted enemy, even if you don’t have superior cover or total concealment and aren’t outside the enemy’s line of sight. The distracted enemy might be focused on something in a different direction, allowing you to sneak up.

If you can only hide if you have superior cover or total concealment or out of line of sight, then obviously foes are paying attention in all directions.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Remember though, there are a few possible ways to skirt around this. Items aside there are various powers you can use. A stealth focused rogue should by 10th level be able to simply walk across a room in plain sight and stay hidden the whole time.

There is also the bluff check method of hiding, which is not as flexible but if used cleverly could allow a character to briefly distract a guard and slip past even in combat. The DM also has pretty wide latitude and creative players can probably work out ways to make this kind of thing easier. For example a bunch of PCs could make a lot of racket and thus Aid Another for a stealth check or bluff to hide check. The DM might grant circumstantial bonuses or even allow some movement in "plain sight" via some sort of in-combat skill challenge. Basically its not really absolutely impossible to do things beyond what the basic stealth rules provide, it just requires planning and creativity on the part of the players and appropriate circumstances.

 

[KarinsDad]

Remember though, there are a few possible ways to skirt around this. Items aside there are various powers you can use. A stealth focused rogue should by 10th level be able to simply walk across a room in plain sight and stay hidden the whole time.

Could you give examples of powers or items or Rogue abilities that give a stealth Rogue the ability to hide when he is in plain sight?

There are many bonuses to Stealth checks, but few ways to gain total concealment or superior cover when out in the open to allow a Stealth check in the first place.

 

[DracoSuave]

Could you give examples of powers or items or Rogue abilities that give a stealth Rogue the ability to hide when he is in plain sight?

There are many bonuses to Stealth checks, but few ways to gain total concealment or superior cover when out in the open to allow a Stealth check in the first place.

Every rogue level has an at-will utility that facilitates this.

It's not difficult.

 

[CapnZapp]

Fleeting Ghost is a level 2 at-will utility power that allows you to make a Stealth check. But I would read it to allow you to sneak around at your normal move speed; I wouldn't read it to do away with the normal prerequisites for going into hiding.

Chameleon and Shadow Stride, level 6/10 at-will utility powers, requires you to be hiding (successfully so, I assume) to start with.

At level 16 there is an encounter utility that you'd think do the job, based on its name: Hide in Plain Sight. However, it too requires you to be hidden.

Again at level 22: You must already be hidden (Hide from the Light).

Every rogue level has an at-will utility that facilitates this.

It's not difficult.

Do you mean "every rogue utility level"?

Assuming you do, I can't find them in the PHB; which pretty much means I disagree with the "not difficult" part (if you need a splatbook to do it, a lot of rogues won't ever be able to do it).

Remember, KarinsDad is asking about powers that work right out in the open, when you have no cover or concealment available.

If you are hiding already, you've already done the hard part. Just maintaining stealth is relatively easy; acquiring it in the first place - in, say, a brightly lit empty parking lot - is not as easy (not by my reading of the PHB utilities, at least)

 

[DracoSuave]

A stealth focused rogue should by 10th level be able to simply walk across a room in plain sight and stay hidden the whole time.

Perfectly doable with the abilities you have mentioned above. If you are having difficulty figuring it out, it is only because you are not representing this statement correctly. And no, you don't have to start in steath. We're discussing non-combat stealth, where the -only- requirement is that they are not paying attention to you.

That's what made your statements so odd... it seemed obvious to me. But then, it turns out, you and he are not actually talking about the same thing. That makes figuring out how to resolve your position relative to his an impossible thing.

 

[Saeviomagy]

If you are hiding already, you've already done the hard part. Just maintaining stealth is relatively easy; acquiring it in the first place - in, say, a brightly lit empty parking lot - is not as easy (not by my reading of the PHB utilities, at least)

Sure it is: if it's not during combat, you just wait for the foe to look the other way.

Or bluff him. IIRC that's still doable.

 

[The Little Raven]

Could you give examples of powers or items or Rogue abilities that give a stealth Rogue the ability to hide when he is in plain sight?

There are many bonuses to Stealth checks, but few ways to gain total concealment or superior cover when out in the open to allow a Stealth check in the first place.

Chameleon (level 6) is triggered when you lose cover or concealment from an enemy, and would become visible to that enemy. It keeps you hidden without cover or concealment until the end of your next turn.

Shadow Stride (level 10) allows you to move through areas with no cover and concealment and remain hidden the entire time, so long as you are hidden with you begin and end in a space where you can be hidden (cover or concealment). You can walk right by enemies, in full light, and remain hidden.

 

[kugelkj]

In my opinion the best way to "hide in plain sight" is to take the multiclass warlock feat to get eyebite or use half-elf dilettante to get it