D&D 5E Revised Warlock (Updated to version 2)

[Caithdein]

I always liked the idea of the 3.5 warlock with just invocations and Eldritch Blast but never got the chance to play one. I've been playing a 5th edition warlock for a while and whilst I'm enjoying it there is still just has the feel of it being another caster with spell slots.

I've been playing about with a 3rd edition feeling warlock for 5e with the below results. I haven't played it yet to know if it works out as balanced but thought I'd post it and see what others think.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1tm41m2hdw8vh8c/Revised Warlock.docx?dl=0 (See below post for Version 2)

The idea was to lose all 'spells' and have everything working by invocations whilst expanding the Eldritch Blast options.

My main concern would be that at will casting would be too powerful, but with a limited spell list I'm hoping it won't unbalance things too much.

 

[Redthistle]

If a character has a high-level spell that they can cast At-Will an unlimited number of times, that is unfair to other players. You do need to establish those limits in line with what other casting classes are able to do.

Other than that, I do like what you have done with this, especially the additional options tweaking Eldritch Blast.

 

[Caithdein]

The spellcasting side of it is the one I had the most trouble with for exactly that reason. I stripped out a few spells from the Warlock list as I thought unlimited casting would be too much.

A lot of the spells are already available as an invocation, some with the level requirement which I kept. Some others I included based on what were available to Warlocks in 3.5 I haven't played a caster in 5e to a high enough level to determine how unbalanced the at will higher level spellcasting would be.

 

[Xeviat]

I really like the idea of handling the Warlock as the Fighter of spellcasters. I'll give your work a look tonight when I'm at my computer.


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[hastur_nz]

The 3.5 warlock was rubbish - full of flavour on paper, but largely useless in actual play because it was under-powered as well as one-dimensional. So I think using that as inspiration is seriously flawed.

The problem in your re-write, is you are trading off the very limited spell casting the Warlock gets (two spells per rest, until high level), for unlimited use spells stacked on top of eldritch blast. I think that's a poor design. Yes, it might be fun to play a blaster-caster where every round you simply choose exactly which extra spell effect you stack on top of your cantrip, but I think the lack of resource management is a problem in terms of how it relates to every other class there is in the 5e game - even Fighters have limited-use special abilities.

 

[Caithdein]

The problem in your re-write, is you are trading off the very limited spell casting the Warlock gets (two spells per rest, until high level), for unlimited use spells stacked on top of eldritch blast. I think that's a poor design. Yes, it might be fun to play a blaster-caster where every round you simply choose exactly which extra spell effect you stack on top of your cantrip, but I think the lack of resource management is a problem in terms of how it relates to every other class there is in the 5e game - even Fighters have limited-use special abilities.

The spellcasting in my rewrite isn't stacked on Eldritch Blast. Only the Eldritch Essence and Eldritch Sculptor invocations can combine with Eldritch Blast - a couple of which are spell like. The Eldritch Spell Invocation essentially just buys you a spell you can cast as any other caster would.

So you could focus entirely on Eldritch Blast with special blasts, or all spells with basic Eldritch Blast as a back up or a combination.

I agree the unlimited spell casting could be overpowered and it's the main thing I'm not sure of with what I've rewritten, I've tried to limit the spell list to mitigate some of this. As I've said this is all theory and I've never played with it yet so I don't know how it works in game.

I did give some thought to making each spell invocation usable once per short rest but that could get messy from a resource management point of view so ultimately I went with the at will and limited list.

 

[gyor]

If your worried about spell slot, multi class your Warlock with Sorceror can burn all your spell slots for spell points to use metamagic on Eldrich blast, like Empower Spell and Quicken Spell.

 

[TwoSix]

1) Drop any spell from the spell list that does damage. You're bas ing the concept around the 3.5 warlock, which has eldritch blast being modified by invocations. Any at-will damage spell overshadows and replaces that concept. You can't balance a class that can use 10d6 fireballs or 25 point Armor of Agathys as cantrips within the base 5e paradigm.

2) For spell list inclusion, you need divinations, enchantments, and illusions, particularly spells that require concentration. (You can grant more and stronger options if they're not combat-viable, or if they're anti-synergistic and compete with each other in the action economy.) Be very cautious with anything that grants a buff that isn't concentration based.

3) Even the champion fighter has some short-rest resources. Maybe some invocations with more pop, but on a once or twice per short rest recharge? (That would probably be the more appropriate place for something like fireball.)

 

[Caithdein]

1) Drop any spell from the spell list that does damage. You're bas ing the concept around the 3.5 warlock, which has eldritch blast being modified by invocations. Any at-will damage spell overshadows and replaces that concept. You can't balance a class that can use 10d6 fireballs or 25 point Armor of Agathys as cantrips within the base 5e paradigm.

2) For spell list inclusion, you need divinations, enchantments, and illusions, particularly spells that require concentration. (You can grant more and stronger options if they're not combat-viable, or if they're anti-synergistic and compete with each other in the action economy.) Be very cautious with anything that grants a buff that isn't concentration based.

My initial thinking was to not take too much away from the 5e warlock and so I included the damage spells based on what the current 5e Warlock has access to but, as you say, unlimited fireballs makes Eldritch Blast pointless in a lot of cases. I like the idea of focusing mainly on concentration type spells or illusion, divination etc. I'll have to review the list and limit it a bit.

3) Even the champion fighter has some short-rest resources. Maybe some invocations with more pop, but on a once or twice per short rest recharge? (That would probably be the more appropriate place for something like fireball.)

Combined with the above this could work better. If I split the spell casting invocation and spell list into two I can have a Minor Eldritch Spell which is the at will type spells and a Major Eldritch Spell which can be used once per short rest but gives the more powerful damage spells.

 

[TwoSix]

Combined with the above this could work better. If I split the spell casting invocation and spell list into two I can have a Minor Eldritch Spell which is the at will type spells and a Major Eldritch Spell which can be used once per short rest but gives the more powerful damage spells.

I think that's an excellent approach; I look forward to seeing any revisions!