D&D 5E Revisiting material components - enforcing in a game focused on resource-management

[5ekyu]

Do this rules add fun to your game?

I would say this having played over the years with a variety of approaches and currently being involved in a 5e game with the unusual difficulty in materials and one with notably lighter handling.

I am an,old school "only number one pencil days" guy and i tend to detail inventories as a matter of course. Its how i cut my teeth on games with any form of inventory import.

I have also played fine in games where inventory was more freeform. It tends ti be more acceptable and maybe more enjoyable to have greater attention to detail on fantasy settings inventory and also say post-apoc (detail beyond weapons and armor) than say some modern, supers or scifi where a lot of routine assumptions are frequent.

I do enjoy games where the tracking and detail level is woven together with the play and performance *and* works together to add to the story.

But that presumes its done in a way that makes it a reasonable and reasoned part of the setting, which imo a more rigid (especially a surprise) management of the existing 5e item specifics fails to do. Tarts and Red Dragon scales for low level spells show different fl as vors of that problem.

 

[5ekyu]

I've always considered material components with no listed cost to be slightly malleable. The listed entry is often the most common or most desired form of component for the respective spell. If it isn't available, a caster can often make due with other materials on hand.

If the available resources are particularly scarce, a caster may not be able to cast spells without a means to create or diffuse certain elements and essences (a good reason to always have Alchemist's Supplies on hand). Depending on the level of scarcity, I might make it an automatic pass with the proper tools or set a DC for a tool proficiency check. Success indicates the caster can use any known spells with zero-cost material components. Failure would result in some (or all) spells with zero-cost material components being unavailable until more resources are acquired.

One game i played back in the day had this assumption on the form of each character having their own individual flavor of magic materials.

in a variety of systems - left the nature of the materials up to the player to define with gm approval.

Some had materials tied to "verb noun" nature of the spells and link in some traditional sympathetic magic principles.

Outside of DnD the materials tend to either follow a more thematic course or are,more explicitly flavor bits in style with mechanical issues.

 

[Yardiff]

Personally I find resource management adds to my immersion in a game.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Starting from 2nd level spells the pcs have to have material components. The focus won't work. Focus in general is a bad, lame, game ruining idea that saps flavor out of the spellcaster classes. I honestly have no idea who came up with the idea of focus or when, but it has to be one of the worst ideas for D&D.

See I disagree, because I find tracking this sort of stuff to be aggravating and generally useless.

Now, before I get into why, I will say to the OP, it's a really cool idea and I hope everyone has a blast with it. It just isn't for me.

And that's because a lot of these components are either pointlessly ubiquitous, or so specific as to be ridiculous.

For example, random page flip into PHB... the Resistance Cantrip has a component of "A miniature Cloak", not a piece of cloth, not a cloak for a child, this sounds like someone has to have found a pixie sized, fully stiched cloak. For a cantrip that no one really uses anyways. Where do you get something like that? How much would a tailor charge to make one since a normal sized cloak isn't listed? It would easily be a couple silver, which isn't a lot but why are we bothering? Or what about something like Hex requiring a petrified eye of a newt. How would you ever aquire that? Cast petrify (a 6th level spell requiring lime [I assume the caustic chemical not the fruit] water and earth) on a newt and then chiseling out if eyeball?

Chromatic Orb is one that constantly annoys me, because players like to take it at first level, but it requires a diamond worth 50 gold. No 1st level character is capable of affording that, so if I didn't hand wave it away then when my sorcerer got excited to cast their spell for the first time I'd have to tell them, "oh sorry, you aren't rich enough to cast that spell you picked" and that isn't fun for anyone.

Then you get the something like Barkskin "a handful of oak bark". Here you have two options, either the party finds an oak tree because they are common enough in the area, they have the item, and then they must remember they have it and mark it on their sheet constantly when remaking sheets. Or, you are in an area where oaks don't grow, and I'm not even talking desert or tundra, a lot of plants have very specific biomes and if you don't want to just handwave it then you need to determine if this setting would support oak trees that the party could find. Then, after they have it.... it doesn't matter. It's just a gotta check "I cast barkskin" "Wait do you have Oak Bark on you" "Yes" "Is it on your character sheet". Is going to get old. Same with a lot of those, Yew Leaves for Detect Poison, Sumac leaves for Flameblade, wychwood for Dancing Lights, Licorice root for Haste (I don't even know what that is). Do all these grow in the same environments, how hard are they to actually find?

Also you get stuff like Banishment which requires "An item distasteful to the target". Which is going to be... what? We had a game where our cleric banished a Giant Ape so we could get into the tower it was guarding and fight it through the doorway. We didn't expect to fight a Giant Ape, so we didn't grab "something distasteful to this Giant Ape" and even if we did know, how are we supposed to know what to get? If they need to have the material component first, does just getting it for one creature work, what is distasteful to Bjorn the City Watchmen that the Cleric Banished so he wouldn't get hurt, do you know? It becomes a mess.



And the end result is either nothing changes from normal, because players either pick spells with easy components that they can quickly find and then use their focuses throughout, or you have spellcasters unable to cast their spells. Also, if you are targeting focuses.... shouldn't you also target component pouches? It'd be even better for the enemy since then the caster might not be able to cast any spell at all. Not sure how much fun it is for the player though, especially if you don't do similar by trying to disarm fighters and break arrow quivers for archers. Though, picking up most weapons is a non-action once per turn so in the end disarming them alone doesn't do anything, you also got to steal the stuff and then you are mostly rolling athletics checks to wrestle over their weapons and items instead of actually damaging each other, which just drags things out.

I personally just don't see the value in it for the occassional "Oh, the wizard goes to the graveyard to get more grave dirt for that spell. That's a cool character scene."

 

[5ekyu]

Personally I find resource management adds to my emersion in a game.

Agreed - with caveat - if the resource management itself is managed in a way that adds to immersion. one could have resource management that added a "non-tainted water is scarce" element to the game and thats fantastic *to the degree* that the outcomes of that and processes of that make it immersive. if the water management rules are "roll a die each day to see if you fet tainted water" (no skill or circumstance adjustment) and that leads to off-kilter in-game breaks in immersion - it can hurt.

 

[iserith]

I probably wouldn't do this in any of my games, but if I did, it would likely be handled as foraging (see Basic Rules, "Activities While Traveling" pages 64-65 and DMG, "Foraging" page 111). So, while the PCs are traveling the wilderness or a dungeon, the spellcaster can opt to forage if the party is going at a slow pace. A passive Wisdom (Survival) check would resolve the outcome, if it's in question. The risk in doing this for the spellcaster is that he or she is automatically surprised if a wandering monster happens upon the party (and is trying to be stealthy). The other trade-off is that, unlike foraging food and water, this could reasonably be established as a little trickier and the group can only travel at a slow pace instead of a slow or normal pace. In a game like mine, traveling at a slow pace likely means you have less time to complete your quest and risk failure and, the longer you take to get around, the higher the frequency of wandering monster checks.

Rather than be about foraging specific items and keeping track of them, it would have to be something like you got the components or you don't. I'm not sure how I'd work that part out exactly, but I certainly would not get so granular as have the spellcasters track specific components outside of ones that cost an appreciable amount of gold.

 

[MNblockhead]

I agree with you that the components as they appear are flavour and not substance, and it's asy for a campaign to do away with them.

I would suggest, however, that if you are going to try to take away the focus from casters, that you let spills still be cast without it, only the caster cannot add their proficiency bonus to the DC. The spells are "unfocused", but still castable. (That's actually the way I thought Material components should have worked from the start.)

I understand why you would recommend this, but I don't think it is overly harsh to say that they must have either the component or the focus to cast the spell. The material component is actually a focus, a way to help you get in touch with and manipulate the weave of magic. An arcane focus, druidic focus, bard instrument, or holy symbol allows you to take that deep understanding of the magical nature of the material component and focus it through this spellcasting focus. It is a shortcut only available to dedicated spellcasters who have spent much time deep in study and practice.

In short. If you have a spell-casting focus (and are of a class that has spellcasting focus as a class ability), you can cast the spell.

If you do not have a spell-casting focus, you can use the actual material component.

My only change is: in order for your spellcasting focus to replace a material component for casting purposes, you must first have studied and practices the spell with access to the appropriate material component.

That doesn't, IMO, nerf casters. They can hide multiple component pouches on their person if they are worried about losing both their focus and components. They may also want to have some safe house, store room, hidden cache, or laboratory where they store extra components in case they lose the components on their person. This just drips spell casting flavor for me.

One other change I am thinking about now is that the spell caster can only be attuned to one focus at a time. But it is a special focus-attunement slot that doesn't count against magic item attunement limits. Otherwise, at higher levels, the caster can just have, say, an extra wand hidden on his person. I like the idea that if your wand/instrument/staff/holy symbol is broken, stolen, lost, you need to get somewhere where you can take the time and money to make or buy a new one.

On the other hand, allowing multiple foci can lead to some fun roleplaying.

DM: "You wake up in a dark cell, stripped of all your possessions and clothes."

WIZARD: I take out my wand and cast light.

DM: You are naked. All your possessions were taken from you. Including your wand.

WIZARD: I had an extra one hidden.

DM: Where would you hide it‽

WIZARD: ... Do you want me to draw a picture?

DM: Ugh. Yeah, right, you've been walking around the dungeon with a stick up your ass.

FIGHTER: It would explain a lot.

WIZARD: Look, it is written on my character sheet. Both in the equipment section and my character's background. Fecesious Stercus went to an all-boys wizards academy and to get around forgetting or being able to procure needed components to complete tests, they would sneak--

DM: OKAY! Fine.

WIZARD: Oh, I also have components for banishment and true seeing.

DM: *Sigh* Fine--What? True seeing‽

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[DEFCON 1]

1. Require material components for all spells.

2. All material components are either 1) the ground up skull of a Paladin, 2) the chopped heart of a gnome, or 3) both.

3. Profit!

What, no trading away of ASIs to gain new spell levels?

 

[MNblockhead]

<SNIP>

First, every character class would already start with only the material components for the cantrips and 1st level spells they had prepared at the start of adventuring. This mainly was for the divine classes, which by the rules says they can prepare any and all spells from their spell lists. In order to keep things fair between them and wizards and classes with Known Spells... the divine classes would not get the material component for every single 1st level spell on their list that required them, even though the rules said they could prepare them. Instead, the player decided what their initial 3-6 spells were going to be (bonus prepared spells included) at the start of the first session and any of those which required material components were the only spells for which they had them in hand.

Good point about divine casters. So, the first-level characters are assumed to have a component pouch with all the components they need to cast their spells and a focus. But for clerics, that would be quite a big component pouch! I'm thinking that the clerics should get to say they have components for up to 9 spells.

Also, again, they don't have to possess the material components. They just need to have access while training. Carrying the material components is simply a backup, in case you lose your spellcasting focus. At lower levels, it will be assumed that their mentor or the temple or academy that provides instruction during leveling up will have the components necessary for teaching the spell. So they can cast them with their focus, but, again, it will be a good idea to have components as a backup.

Second, it was assumed that before becoming 1st level spellcasters, every character had gone through training where they were given "component lists" from their instructors of the types of things they would need to acquire out in the world in order to cast the myriad of other spells available on their spell lists. So even if a PC didn't start the game knowing how to cast Feather Fall, they would know that in order to cast it at some point in the future they would need a small feather or piece of down. Which meant that as they started adventuring, the PC could start looking for any and all material components from their list which they would need down the road if/when they acquired the ability to cast said spell.

Yeah, I'll probably handwave this. While I like the idea of the character only knowing about spells maybe a level or two ahead (for e.g., divine casters) or only after they have access to and studied the spell from a scroll or spellbook (e.g., wizards). But the problem with this is that it puts me in the role of "metagame cop", which I have no interest in. The players have access to the spell descriptions so, yes, it is easier to assume that he published spells are known about and that the character will have at least a vague idea of materials that may be of interest. I figure wizards are curious and studious and would be collecting all manner of materials. Clerics would have a divine sense of important materials.

When it would become time to level up and acquire new Known Spells or new divine spells to prepare,
or new spells to add to their spellbook, you could only select from those spells on your spell list that either only required verbal and/or somatic components, or were ones that you had found the required material component for during the previous adventures. If you found the material component, it meant you were now able to work out the magic and could now select the spell going forward.

I'll be using training to get levels rules from the DMG with some additional mechanics from an EN5ider article about "mentors". So, it will be assumed that the players will be able to access the spells they want. At higher levels, however, I don't like this as much. Some spells, I think, should be quest worthy. But I am not sure that I want to move too far away from RAW.

I think there were a couple other little rules in and around the system I was jury-rigging together, but at the end of the day I ended up not bothering with it-- mainly because I had a hard enough time for players to select wizards to begin with, and this material component system just made things even more difficult for them compared to other classes (since they now not only had to find new spells to add to their spellbooks from scrolls or enemy spellbooks etc, but they also now had to find the components as well.) This doubling up of searching for stuff made the wizard even less desirable than it already was in my games.

Depends on the players, I suppose. The wizard has much more flexibility than Warlocks and Sorcerors. They will have a much larger pallet of spells to select from if the campaign gives them access to scrolls and spell books frequently enough to give that edge to them.