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D&D 5E Revisiting revised core rulebooks

No, there is no published rule that lets you have more than one bonus action per turn. If anyone is doing more than one, then there is a house rule at play, but nothing official.

That's what I thought. 1 bonus action and 1 reaction per turn per character/creature although can drag combat out its manageable. Adding in held/readied actions that's when it gets a little unruly. 1E and 2E were either attack and move, full attack, full move or use a magical item right, at least until the combat and tactics came out?
 

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Mercurius

Legend
Agree about something 50th Anniversary. Absolutely disagree about "5.15" for reasons stated that have not been rebuffed in your comment so still stand.

We will not see a "5.1" or "5.3". Either they will turn the crank or they will keep the cash cow going. That could be a 5.5 with enough changes that it's only sorta kinda backwards compatible like 3.0 to 3.5, but I doubt it. I think 6e is more likely. I guess I would say my guesses about 50th Anniversary would be ranked:

1. New Limited edition collector covers + "Big Hardcover"+tie ins + Class Feature Variant / XGtE 2 book
2. 6e.
3. Just an increased publishing schedule with lots of 50th special editions.
4. 5.5e

Again, you can "keep the cash cow going" with revised core rulebooks. New art, a few new bells and whistles, edits, etc. People will buy them.

In the end, though, it is anyone's guess what they will actually do. They may not even know, and will want to first figure out how to ride out the current various dramas.
 

In the end, though, it is anyone's guess what they will actually do. They may not even know, and will want to first figure out how to ride out the current various dramas.

Probably the most likely scenario, sit and wait and do nothing until things calm down and see how things pan out. No sense in rushing into things.
 

Mercurius

Legend
A - I don't think revised rulebooks are particularly likely. The stuff they want to change is too messy and would require too fundamental of a rethink to the design.
B - I think significant revision re: secondary books like a Xanathars 2 is extremely likely. They'll keep it optional within 5E.
C - Yes, I think 6E was already closer than we though, internally in WotC, at least as an option, and I strongly suspect that, for WotC, the rest of 5E will be that "let's try out more wild ideas" phase that D&D enters at the end of an edition's lifespan. We won't see the impact for 8-16 months I'd guess, but then I suspect we'll see wilder stuff.

This may be wishful thinking on my part, but I don't think so. Every previous edition, without exception, started doing this in the last few years - once you start making big changes and additions, even if they're purely optional, you want to make more, and generally the public likes it.

If they do bother with a revised, there's no way they'll do it for less than a 5.5 or 5.75 (where Pathfinder is regarded as 3.75E). It'd be backwards compatible, but more in the sense that you could still use all your 5E adventures with it than every piece of 5E material. It's the adventures that people care about with backwards compatibility.

Yeah, I think whatever they do as far as a new edition (or micro-edition) is concerned will be at least mostly backwards compatible, at least no less so tha 3.5/3E or 2/1E. We won't see another big jump ala 3.5 to 4 or 4 to 5.

I like the idea of "more wild ideas." The difference now compared to the last few editions, though, is that 5E is still rising--or at least plateauing--in terms of popularity. Also, they haven't glutted the market with re-capitulating the usual products. So while I like the idea of them producer wilder stuff, I think we'll at least see planes and psionics first.

Though we're now six years into 5E--well past the demise of 4E and a year from the demise of 3.5--we're not nearly as far into the "edition cycle" relative to the last two. Now I think it is clear that they're taking a different route with 5E, so it could be that "wilder stuff" could be coming soon, or maybe they'll take a wilder approach to old stand-bys like psionics and the planes.
 

So while I like the idea of them producer wilder stuff, I think we'll at least see planes and psionics first.

Im guessing that they'll release whatever is on the schedule, in the works already before they think about anything new. Anyone know how far out their plans/schedule is, 1-2 years?
 

Mercurius

Legend
Im guessing that they'll release whatever is on the schedule, in the works already before they think about anything new. Anyone know how far out their plans/schedule is, 1-2 years?

Don't know--maybe a business/publishing person could chime in--but I think it is about that or even longer, and that they probably have a vague outline for the next 3-5 years. They probably have several books mostly complete in the queue, and then a few others in various stages of progress, and then leave room for new ideas to some up and be expedited.

Purely speculative, but this would mean something like:

2020 Q4 book: Text complete, final edits and layout, almost ready for printers.
2021 Q1-Q2 books: In revision, working on art and layout.
2021 Q3-4 books: In progress.
2022 books: Research and initial writing.
2023-25 books: Bouncing around ideas, initial research.
 

Don't know--maybe a business/publishing person could chime in--but I think it is about that or even longer, and that they probably have a vague outline for the next 3-5 years. They probably have several books mostly complete in the queue, and then a few others in various stages of progress, and then leave room for new ideas to some up and be expedited.

Purely speculative, but this would mean something like:

2020 Q4 book: Text complete, final edits and layout, almost ready for printers.
2021 Q1-Q2 books: In revision, working on art and layout.
2021 Q3-4 books: In progress.
2022 books: Research and initial writing.
2023-25 books: Bouncing around ideas, initial research.

Sometime in 2022 is probably a good assumption for them to start working on anything new. I seem to remember reading something that they work on a 2 year schedule and don't like to plan too far ahead. Who knows with changing personnel, the current social landscape and the pandemic its anyone's guess at this point.
 

What if?

The anniversary edition is instead a "Rules Compendium" that puts all of the core rules into a single book.

This would feel like leaving the three core books alone, while also having a new comprehensive core rulebook, that includes all of the updates.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Again, you can "keep the cash cow going" with revised core rulebooks. New art, a few new bells and whistles, edits, etc. People will buy them.

In the end, though, it is anyone's guess what they will actually do. They may not even know, and will want to first figure out how to ride out the current various dramas.

By definition, replacing the cash cow is not "keeping it going", it's starting a new one. So no, you can not keep a cash cow going by dropping it and replacing it. At best, you can replace one cash cow with another.

Just changing art and covers has nothing to do with an edition change and will not anger consumers. I've suggested elsewhere in this thread about limited edition with collectable covers as one of the most likely things to happen.
 


TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Sure, they can come out with a class features variants book. I'm expecting one, probably sooner. That's not a change to the core rules, not changing the version any more than Xanathar's or SCAG did coming out with some more options.
My personal feeling is that the next big rule book or two are going to give fairly modular options for class feature swaps, almost as aggressive as 3.5's Unearthed Arcana, but without the disclaimers of being all optional house rules that only the DM can implement. In terms of how it presents its expectation of use, I think it'll look like Xanathar's.

In other words, big, modular rule changes presented as "just more options for everyone."
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Sure. Then if they come out a new PHB that includes stuff from those books... it isn't a change to the core rules. It just adds to them.

And if those options make the original ones obsolete for rangers, well, then, so be it. ;)

You could even include optional (aka improved) bonus action rules.

I think that this is a difference in terminology. Adding to the existing edition is, wait for it, adding to the existing edition. In other words, it's still 5e. What I have been arguing about is against a 5.1, 5.15, 5.3 which would require changing an edition. Where something from before are no longer legal characters, etc.

We can and have been adding options and rules since the Elemental Evil players option came out with Genasi and spells and stuff. That's not a new edition, just new choices in the existing edition.

But you do bring up an interesting point - will they publish a 5e core books that includes some of the additions in addition to everything that is in there now. That's not as cut and dried.

Okay, speaking on keeping it 5e but adding to core books, I am not so sure. I would deem it moderately unlikely, but that leaves plenty of room for it to happen. And if it's going to happen, 50th Anniversary would be the logical time for it. Call it 60/40. The reasoning behind that is the core books are the gateway for new players, and having too many options, especially contradictory ways to achieve the same thing where one is weaker (a trap option) I don't think is something they will do. That gets to the interesting point of do they change the Starter Set (which means two starter sets might not be compatible with each other). It also touches on AL's PHB+1 a bit, but I hope that's not a consideration.

To sum up: I am still absolutely sure they will not advance slightly beyond 5e. "5e" includes what we have done so far - adding new options without expiring or replacing old, and issuing errata that corrects problems. They may turn the crank and come out with a whole 5.5e or 6e.

In terms of adding new rules material to the core books, I think it unlikely but possible. Adding new covers and other things that don't affect play I think are very likely.
 

vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
I would love a 6E that borrowed liberally from Shadow of the Demon Lord.

Indeed.

Racial levels are super cool.
Mixing freely class + Subclass + specialization enable a boatload of build options,
2 defenses + armor is enough, you dont need 6 saves + AC.
Weapon and armor proficiencies being based on a character STR is brilliant.
Fast turn vs Slow turn is a good system that can be borrowed easily to do something different than cyclic initiative.

The fun part is that you could totally takes those things and it would ''still be D&D''. You dont need to go with only 3 stats, use corruption and sanity rules etc like SotDL does.
 


Indeed.

Racial levels are super cool.
Mixing freely class + Subclass + specialization enable a boatload of build options,
2 defenses + armor is enough, you dont need 6 saves + AC.
Weapon and armor proficiencies being based on a character STR is brilliant.
Fast turn vs Slow turn is a good system that can be borrowed easily to do something different than cyclic initiative.

The fun part is that you could totally takes those things and it would ''still be D&D''. You dont need to go with only 3 stats, use corruption and sanity rules etc like SotDL does.
Plus the modularity of the spell schools.

I love it for creating spellcasting NPCs. I can just say that this is a "storm priest" and give him storm school spells.
 

Staffan

Legend
I played a lot of 3.0 which originally didn't have bonus actions, and it was just fine. At some point they introduced swift actions and I hated them, as they complicated an already complex and fiddly action economy.
Swift actions were pretty neat as first presented: primarily a way to activate buffs without spending a whole action on them. For example, taking a round to cast Expeditious Retreat to get +30 ft speed for the rest of the fight is a little iffy – will you really get enough use out of it to spend a round on that? But spending a swift action and a spell to get +30 ft speed for a round? Now that's a neat ability.

Problem was that once swift actions existed, the temptation became too great to figure out other things to do with them, and that's where things became complex.
 


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