Unearthed Arcana Revived, Noble Genie and Archivist Revisited in UA

The latest Unearthed Arcana replaces the Revived, Noble Genie, and Archivist subclasses with new versions called the Phantom, the Genie, and the Order of Scribes.

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I agree. This ability needs to go. It isn't good, and you don't want to use it. It's a pain to keep track of the spells you can't cast, and just overall a crappy ability.
There is also a logic problem. There is nothing to prevent the wizard creating a backup non-magical spellbook via normal expenditure of gold and time.

I have concerns that the level 10 ability could also be abused to turn the wizard into an invulnerable assassin under some circumstances.

The concept is good, but the actual abilities need another pass.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
I, for one, don't miss them.

In the other thread about a FR setting book a lot of people made references to the 3.0 FRCS so I looked it up. I came across the stat block for Elminster. Here's most of it, not including his spells and his magic items:

Male human (Chosen of Mystra) Ftr1/Rog2/Clr3/Wiz20/ Acm5/Epic4: CR 39; Medium-size humanoid; HD 1d10+7 plus 2d6+14 plus 3d8+21 plus 14d4+98; hp 219; Init +10; Spd 30 ft.; AC 29 (touch 17, flat-footed 25); Atk +17/+12/+7 melee (1d8+6/19–20, +5 thundering longsword) or +15/+10/+5 ranged touch (by spell); SA Sneak attack +1d6, turn undead 6/day; SQ Archmage high arcana, Chosen immunities, Chosen spell-like abilities, detect magic, enhanced Constitution, enhanced Intelligence, epic-level benefits, evasion, silver fire; SR 21; AL CG; SV Fort +17, Ref +13, Will +17; Str 13, Dex 18, Con 24, Int 24, Wis 18, Cha 17. Height 6 ft. 2 in. Skills and Feats: Alchemy +27, Balance +6, Climb +5, Concentration +34, Decipher Script +9, Diplomacy +6, Handle Animal +7, Heal +8, Hide +8, Intimidate +11, Intuit Direction +6, Jump +5, Knowledge (arcana) +27, Knowledge (geography) +22, Knowledge (history) +17, Knowledge (Dalelands local) +17, Knowledge (nature) +17, Knowledge (nobility) +17, Knowledge (the planes) +22, Knowledge (religion) +12, Listen +13, Move Silently +8, Open Lock +6, Perform (dance) +6, Ride +8, Scry +27, Search +9, Sense Motive +11, Spellcraft +29, Spot +14, Swim +5, Tumble +5; Blooded, Craft Staff, Craft Wondrous Item, Expertise, Forge Ring, Heighten Spell, Improved Initiative, Luck of Heroes, Scribe Scroll, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spell Focus (Enchantment), Spell Focus (Evocation), Spell Penetration, Twin Spell. Special Qualities: Archmage High Arcana: Arcane reach, mastery of counterspelling, mastery of elements, spell power +4 (total). Chosen Immunities: Elminster is completely unaffected by attacks that duplicate these effects: detect thoughts, disintegrate, Evard’s black tentacles, feeblemind, finger of death, fireball, magic missile, sunburst, temporal stasis. Chosen Spell-like Abilities (all 1/day): dispel magic, lesser ironguard, see invisibility, shapechange, Simbul’s synostodweomer (converts prepared spells into 2 points of healing per spell level), spider climb, teleport without error, thunderlance, true seeing. Detect Magic (Su): Line of sight. Enhanced Constitution: The Chosen of Mystra template adds +10 to Elminster’s Constitution. Enhanced Intelligence: Elminster used wish spells to increase his Intelligence. His Intelligence score has a +4 inherent bonus included in its value. EpicLevel Benefits: Bonus spell level ×4 (included in the listing below), six effective levels of wizard and five of archmage (included in above total). Silver Fire (Su): See Chapter 2 for details.

Um....no thank you.
 

In the other thread about a FR setting book a lot of people made references to the 3.0 FRCS so I looked it up. I came across the stat block for Elminster. Here's most of it, not including his spells and his magic items:



Um....no thank you.

It isn't the crunch that makes the book, it's the fluff. Take out all of the crunch and you still have a book that provides information on essentially every part of Faerun. Point at any location on the map and you can look it up and will have enough information to create a character from that region (knowing which languages to pick and the demographics, for instance). Why it is good isn't because of original content is any innovative design decisions. It's because it had all of those thousands of pages of 1e and 2e content to mine and put together a dense overview of the continent. It's basically just the pure amount of content. It used extra small text to fit everything in.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
It isn't the crunch that makes the book, it's the fluff. Take out all of the crunch and you still have a book that provides information on essentially every part of Faerun. Point at any location on the map and you can look it up and will have enough information to create a character from that region (knowing which languages to pick and the demographics, for instance). Why it is good isn't because of original content is any innovative design decisions. It's because it had all of those thousands of pages of 1e and 2e content to mine and put together a dense overview of the continent. It's basically just the pure amount of content. It used extra small text to fit everything in.

My post was purely a response to a comment about 3e stat blocks.

But, if you want to talk about fluff, I am a fan of sparser fluff. Skimming through the 3e FRCS my take is that the word count is about four times what it needs to be to convey the information. I don't need long prose, in fact I don't want long prose because I'm not reading for entertainment I'm reading to prepare for a game. (Ed Greenwood is not Herman Melville.).

(For the opposite approach, check out The Secrets of Skyhorn Lighthouse and The Corruption of Skyhorn Lighthouse, by Kelsey Dionne, on DMs Guild. I recently downloaded them and love the format; rarely am I ready to run an adventure with as little reading.)

EDIT: To make my point a little more clear, I'm talking about taking something like this:

Sewer halflings are a peculiar sub-branch of halflings, which some sages say are distantly related to Lightfoots, although this theory has never been confirmed. The timid Sewer halflings reside in the extensive sewers of cities like Luskan and Waterdeep, although there have been sightings in smaller cities throughout the Realms. As one would expect from creatures that reside in the sewers, sewer halflings are filthy. They can be useful allies, however, for they are inveterate hoarders and consequently can be a....blah blah blah

And condensing it to:

Sewer Halflings (timid, filthy, hoarders)
Location: Luskan, Waterdeep
 
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Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
There is also a logic problem. There is nothing to prevent the wizard creating a backup non-magical spellbook via normal expenditure of gold and time.

I have concerns that the level 10 ability could also be abused to turn the wizard into an invulnerable assassin under some circumstances.

The concept is good, but the actual abilities need another pass.
I agree. Also, if they can't get this right (which they should be able to), I want the Archivist back.

Anyone else notice how they took a subclass from the class with the least amount of subclasses, and then turned it into a subclass for the class with the most subclasses?
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
I agree. Also, if they can't get this right (which they should be able to), I want the Archivist back.

Anyone else notice how they took a subclass from the class with the least amount of subclasses, and then turned it into a subclass for the class with the most subclasses?

I wouldn't phrase it like that per se, but I do not like them taking it from the Artificer.

One of the things I loved about that artificer was that it was making magical AI's. That fits so beautifully into the lore of Eberron. Combing them with the Battle Smith and the Armorer and you can get sentient, mobile, and changeable armor. Where does that sound familiar from? ;)

I also like the point someone made about an artificer for different types of magic items, and magical scrolls is one lacking an artificer.

Not to say that both can't exist. I think they can, but they need to keep the Artificer about where they were in my opinion.
 



Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
I asked Dan Dillon about that, and he confirmed that it is only the wizard subclass. The other psionic subclasses are continuing forward.
I would be very surprised it they went back to making a Psion class, even though I really want one.
The Onomancer can be a bard, easily. The Psion they made a Sorcerer subclass.
 

3E monsters say hey, and they miss you.

One thing I can say as an unrepentant monster creator/tinkerer, while 3e had rules that could allow you to easily raise or lower power levels to a monster, or add class levels, the stated final CR (by those rules) for the creature you created tended to vary wildly from actual power levels in play. 5e monster tinkering is a bit more difficult (until you get used to it and practice a bit; 3e monster creation rules were very simple and easy straight from the box), but your results will line up with your intended final CR much more closely...
 

Xeviat

Hero
Ooooof ... 10 minute short rests on the Warlock is simply too much. I'm shocked and surprised this was a thing. It invalidates the warlock's 20th level ability. Big no. No no no.
 

cbwjm

Legend
Ooooof ... 10 minute short rests on the Warlock is simply too much. I'm shocked and surprised this was a thing. It invalidates the warlock's 20th level ability. Big no. No no no.
It's only once per day and can be used in addition to the level 20 ability, it doesn't invalidate it.
 

Xeviat

Hero
It's only once per day and can be used in addition to the level 20 ability, it doesn't invalidate it.

Oh, was it once per day? Okay, that makes it different.

It still means it's more powerful than a capstone ability since it applies to the whole party.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
My post was purely a response to a comment about 3e stat blocks.

But, if you want to talk about fluff, I am a fan of sparser fluff. Skimming through the 3e FRCS my take is that the word count is about four times what it needs to be to convey the information. I don't need long prose, in fact I don't want long prose because I'm not reading for entertainment I'm reading to prepare for a game. (Ed Greenwood is not Herman Melville.).

(For the opposite approach, check out The Secrets of Skyhorn Lighthouse and The Corruption of Skyhorn Lighthouse, by Kelsey Dionne, on DMs Guild. I recently downloaded them and love the format; rarely am I ready to run an adventure with as little reading.)

EDIT: To make my point a little more clear, I'm talking about taking something like this:

Sewer halflings are a peculiar sub-branch of halflings, which some sages say are distantly related to Lightfoots, although this theory has never been confirmed. The timid Sewer halflings reside in the extensive sewers of cities like Luskan and Waterdeep, although there have been sightings in smaller cities throughout the Realms. As one would expect from creatures that reside in the sewers, sewer halflings are filthy. They can be useful allies, however, for they are inveterate hoarders and consequently can be a....blah blah blah

And condensing it to:

Sewer Halflings (timid, filthy, hoarders)
Location: Luskan, Waterdeep
OTOH, I hate the second example. I’ll never use something with that little information. At that point I’m better off just making up my own stuff. A paragraph or two let’s me know enough to actually use them, without any extra work on my part.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
OTOH, I hate the second example. I’ll never use something with that little information. At that point I’m better off just making up my own stuff. A paragraph or two let’s me know enough to actually use them, without any extra work on my part.

I'll acknowledge that the information was sparse, but what was in the prose version that was missing in the summary version? Because the point was that both versions contain the same quantity of useful information.
 

Weiley31

Legend
NPCs can have Subclasses/features. Your not the ONLY Bladesinger out there.

Also, is it just me or have I been mispronouncing Djinni wrong this whole time? *Pronouncing the hard "D" in it like "D-Jin"?
 

cbwjm

Legend
Oh, was it once per day? Okay, that makes it different.

It still means it's more powerful than a capstone ability since it applies to the whole party.
Oh it's definitely a good ability. Another benefit is that at the level you can finally bring in allies you can use it as a place to hide for a long rest. Who's going to suspect a battered lamp or bottle as something that holds the party.
 

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