D&D 5E Revivify - where did that come from?!?

[Rune]

Why have negative HP, if a successful attack on your downed body is a failed death save?

But 5e doesn't have negative hit points. The only thing remotely resembling it is the instant death rule, which is a one-time calculation. When you are reduced to 0 hit points, any excess damage will kill you outright if it equals or exceeds your hit point maximum. That's not negative hit points - it's a threshold. If you're already at 0 hp, you stop taking damage. Instead of taking damage, you fail death saves. This is exactly as simple as (no - even simpler than, since you use negative hit points) your houserule (although, usually also less deadly).

 

[Syntallah]

One of my favorite ways of making resurrection (and the like) risky was how they handled that spell in 13th Age, with various possible repercussions. I keep meaning to transfer that into 5E, and keep forgetting when the time comes.

I forgot where I got this (interwebs, and I made a few modifications myself...), but I use the following:

"The standard Dungeons & Dragons rules for returning from the dead via spells like Revivify, Raise Dead, Resurrection, and True Resurrection do not impose enough of a penalty. In order to make death a bit more risky, and have some lasting consequences, the following rules will be implemented.

Afterlife Escalation
Each time a creature is brought back to life via magic, a piece of their soul remains in the afterlife. They may only return from death a number of times equal to their [Constitution modifier + 1], before their soul is permanently anchored in the afterlife. An additional death is the absolute end for that creature, after which they may not be brought back to life by any means short of direct divine intervention.

Fragile Soul
Outside of the body, the soul is somewhat fragile. The process of bringing a person back to life is hard on it, and there's a chance a returning soul could be lost or destroyed in the attempt. A caster attempting to revive the dead must make a spellcasting check with a DC from the appropriate table below.

- On a success, the victim must make a System Shock roll [Constitution save, DC equivalent to the spellcaster check], or lose experience points equal to one level.
- On a failure, the victim makes the System Shock roll mentioned above at Disadvantage, and the caster must roll percentile on the same table to ascertain the fate of the soul.

Revivify: DC 15+1/round

01-64 spell works as normal
65-88 soul not returned to the body; spell slot and materials expended
89-96 soul not returned to the body; it is lost in the void instead
97-00 soul returned to body, but the spirit of an outsider (such as a demon, devil, angel, etc) crosses over as well. Will contest [d20+Int,Wis,Cha mods] to see who controls body

 

[Pandaemoni]

You could always do what they do on Critical Role and combine the spell with a skill RP challenge. It was rather tense and dramatic.

I was thinking about adopting that or something like it. First it sets up some potentially nice RP moments, but more importantly, it gives some gravitas the possibility of death, even at high levels. One think in 5e, players don't have as much to do with their cash, so spending it on expensive diamonds for their inevitable resurrection needs is a no brainer. At high levels, even leaving the Clone spell aside, death seems trivially easy to avoid. The PCs aside, why would anyone assassinate a king, knowing that the king will almost certainly be resurrected shortly thereafter?

The death save system keeps the players reasonably safe, I think. On the rare occasion death does come, it should be tense, not just inconvenient and expensive.

I do still need to think about whether reincarnation and the Clone spell require any adjustment as a result. I'm inclined to leave those both alone, but it's something I could change my mind on.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

I don't really like the way the death rules in 5E work, they're convoluted. <snipped to save space>

They aren't actually all that convoluted in practice, though I can agree the presentation of the information can make them seem convoluted. Here's how simple they are in practice though:

1) If you take damage from one source while at 0 hit points that is equal to or greater than your maximum hit points, you die.
2) Damage dealt to you by sources that involve saving throws or no roll at all besides the damage roll while dying that doesn't kill you counts as a single failed death saving throw
3) Damage dealt to you by sources that involve attack rolls, which are critical hits if they hit at all, while dying that doesn't kill you counts as two failed death saving throws
4) If you accumulate 3 failed death saving throws, which you roll each turn you are dying, before becoming stable, you die.
5) If you accumulate 3 successful death saving throws, or if another character stabilizes you, you become stable and reset your death saving throw success and failure counts to zero.

Of course, what colors my opinion on how convoluted something is happens to be that the idea of having less hp than zero has just never made sense to me, so anything that doesn't involve that concept appears less convoluted by default.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Yeah, except stabilizing was only a tiny part of 3E, because monster damage scaled with level and your ten-point buffer did not.

Different point, entirely. And, yeah, it's maybe not overly useful in the middle of a game of 'rocket tag,' you can always stabilize your dropped allies after the battle. But, still introduced in 3e. (If not earlier. I'd not be surprised if there were a ranged healing spell in classic D&D, and I would be surprised if there wasn't a magic item that could do it.)

But 5e doesn't have negative hit points. The only thing remotely resembling it is the instant death rule, which is a one-time calculation. When you are reduced to 0 hit points, any excess damage will kill you outright if it equals or exceeds your hit point maximum. That's not negative hit points - it's a threshold.

It's very close to negative hps - just equivalent to being able to go to a very low (high absolute value) negative hp total. AD&D 'Death's Door' option, you have 1 hp left out of 8, you take 9, you're at -8 and will be dead in two rounds. 5e, you have 1hp left out of 8, you take 9, you're dead, but if you take 7 you're still at 0, just as if you had taken only 1. FWIW. Getting hit while at 0 will still kill you very quickly though.

 

[Rune]

It's very close to negative hps - just equivalent to being able to go to a very low (high absolute value) negative hp total. AD&D 'Death's Door' option, you have 1 hp left out of 8, you take 9, you're at -8 and will be dead in two rounds. 5e, you have 1hp left out of 8, you take 9, you're dead, but if you take 7 you're still at 0, just as if you had taken only 1. FWIW. Getting hit while at 0 will still kill you very quickly though.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be simpler to ignore it - and I don't think the game would suffer if you did. I'm just saying a one-time (simple) calculation is inherently simpler (or, at least, quicker) than keeping track of negative hit points.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I'm just saying a one-time (simple) calculation is inherently simpler (or, at least, quicker) than keeping track of negative hit points.

Agreed. It's also the equivalent of "going to more negative hps than ever before." Which is nifty, in a way, as it's both simpler to track, and less brutal (once you leave apprentice tier behind, anyway).

 

[Gadget]

I always thought of revivify as a normal healing spell that got there a few rounds late, rather than bringing someone back from beyond. Or, more of a 'he's only mostly dead' type of narrative control. Though I do think the material component should be a pair of electric chest paddles the cleric has to apply while shouting "Clear!" as part of the spell.

 

[jrowland]

I always thought of revivify as a normal healing spell that got there a few rounds late, rather than bringing someone back from beyond. Or, more of a 'he's only mostly dead' type of narrative control. Though I do think the material component should be a pair of electric chest paddles the cleric has to apply while shouting "Clear!" as part of the spell.

Material: 2 diamonds of 1/2 value of the RAW diamond
Somatic: Rapid Chest Compressions
Verbal: Depends on Deity (see below)

Deity with Life Domain: CLEAR!
Deity with War Domain: MEDIC!
Dwarven Deity: Rub Some Dirt Innit! Yer Fine!
etc.

 

[Sunseeker]

But 5e doesn't have negative hit points. The only thing remotely resembling it is the instant death rule, which is a one-time calculation. When you are reduced to 0 hit points, any excess damage will kill you outright if it equals or exceeds your hit point maximum. That's not negative hit points - it's a threshold. If you're already at 0 hp, you stop taking damage. Instead of taking damage, you fail death saves. This is exactly as simple as (no - even simpler than, since you use negative hit points) your houserule (although, usually also less deadly).

But beyond low levels, that's a pointless rule. Short of a Palentar critting on your corpse (which it probably wouldn't do anyway) most hits are going to deal somewhere in the range of 20-30 damage. That's, for most people, level 4 and below. Once you're past that benchmark, you're basically one-hit-unkillable, since nothing is going to deal that level of damage to you short of a breath weapon.