Richard Garfield vs. Gary Gygax

[EricNoah]

But that's the nature of the beast. He's a minor celebrity amongst gamers, and he's outspoken, so these "attacks" will continue.

Gary's a tough old bird, he can take it (and dish it right back out if he's in the mood). That's definitely part of his charm. The other part is that he stays involved with the hobby that he helped create. To me, that's just cool.

 

[Henry]

While I'm at it, let's everybody try to keep personal attacks, on Gary or otherwise, to a minimum.

I've seen some close shots at people's personal character above, and I'd rather see the duscussion remain civil, ladies and gentlemen.

Thanks, everyone.


EDIT - and Eric beats me to it.

 

[Dogbrain]

And to elaborate -- the research I've read on "information-seeking behavior" suggests (much to a librarian's dismay!) that a typical person's first impulse when faced with a need for information is to ask another person, no matter how many printed or electronic resources they have ready access to. It's human nature, baby!

Quite true. We are still just freakish apes, when you get down to it, and "Hoot-bark, pant, grunt?" is still far more easy for us than is sitting down to an index, learning its quirks, optimizing searches, etc.

 

[Gundark]

What part did Arenson have in creating D&D? I mean who came up with the original concept? That's who I would credit with creating D&D.....BTW what does TSR stand for?

 

[rogueattorney]

What part did Arenson have in creating D&D? I mean who came up with the original concept? That's who I would credit with creating D&D.....BTW what does TSR stand for?

The easy question first: Tactical Studies Rules - or something like that. They were wargamers, remember.

O.K., now the hard one. My understanding from reading a number of accounts from both G.G. and D.A. is that Gary co-wrote a medieval miniatures wargame called Chainmail. This was a straight historical wargame, but had rules for 1:1 fighting and a "Fantasy Supplement" for adding magic and monsters to the mix. Dave Arneson adapted the 1:1 rules, the Fantasy Supplement, and the suggestion that underground sieges and mining could be played out w/ pen and paper, and began a dungeon campaign - Blackmoor.

Gygax and Arneson were part of the same wargaming association, and corresponed regarding Arneson's adoption of the Chainmail rules to his Blackmoor campaign. Arneson sent a bunch of his house rules to Gygax, detailing his campaign. At about the same time, Gygax started his Greyhawk campaign. Gygax put Arneson's rules together, added some of his own stuff, and then published the first Dungeons & Dragons set. Gygax and Arneson each began working on Supplements developed from their own campaign, and each were published in 1975.

The controversy comes from who developed what and when. How much did Arneson take from Chainmail? How much of what Arneson provided Gygax ended up in the D&D rules? How much did Gygax add to what Arneson provided? Etc. The OD&Dities article cited above is a good source for Gygax's version of things, and I believe Arneson's website has a decent write up of his version. Here's an article from the Acaeum, going into the influence Chainmail had on Arneson: http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/SetPages/Chainmail.html
There are also a number or retellings of the creation of D&D in The Dragon. The Dragon CD-Rom archive is a great source for the game's history.

Personally, I don't think it matters too much. It was clearly a collaberative effort, and the game never would have happened without both men. The reason Gygax tends to overshadow Arneson is because of Gygax's continuing involvement in gaming and massive amount of gaming materials he's written in the years since the creation of D&D.

R.A.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

What part did Arenson have in creating D&D? I mean who came up with the original concept? That's who I would credit with creating D&D.....BTW what does TSR stand for?

I'm a bit behind in my D&D history, but I believe Arenson is credited as being the one who actually came up with the idea that people should take fantasy characters that they'd been playing fantasy war games with, and rather than play them as squads of elves, they play ONE of the elves and then play that one character through a dungeon killing monsters.

IF I remember correctly, Gary played with them, and thought the idea could be expanded and made into a game in its own right, called Dungeons and Dragons. He wrote the actual rules for the game and got the credit for writing the book. So, a lot of people who don't know any better view him as the "creator" of D&D. In a lot of ways, he IS though, as a lot of the way things STILL work in 3.5 Edition is either VERY close or the same as it was when he wrote it so many years ago.

With this, they formed TSR, which stands for Tactical Studies Rules.

As for the answer to the original question. Gary views D&D as HIS game, he's always really had that opinion and it comes across when you read what he says. Some people hate him for that, because they believe D&D belongs to everyone and not just him. Gary sees it as the game and rules he came up with, and wrote. Since he has that opinion, and was open about saying it for the longest time, he has a lot of people that view him exactly like that, he IS D&D. In a way, I can see it, you like D&D, then you like his ideas. In his day, D&D was shaped by him. He didn't like a rule, he'd change it to something else. He'd give people advice on the "right" way to DM, as he viewed that since it was his game, his way WAS the right way.

Chris Wachal

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Some kid's card game? I think a good case could be made for MtG being as influential in gaming as D&D has been. It spawned many imitators and easily has been the most successful and longest lasting game in that genre. Indeed, you can trace the current trend of collectible miniature games to MtG's success.

I don't know if I agree or not... I'll reserve my opinion until MtG has been around for 30 years and then I'll decide whether or not it was as influential as D&D.

 

[JDJarvis]

"Richard Garfield" vs "Gary Gygax"

Results via Name check on Google-

Gary Gygax - 24,400

Richard garfiled - 8,450

Me - 17,000

Results probably actually about them in some maanner through google-
Gary Gygax- 19,000

Richard Garfield- 2,600

Me- 160

Gygax wins ! I'm but a distant third.

 

[RangerWickett]

The thing that's bothering me about this whole thread is that, um, Gary posts here. It isn't cool to insult someone who's right next to you.

 

[dreaded_beast]

Double Post!