Richard Garfield vs. Gary Gygax

[dreaded_beast]

The thing that's bothering me about this whole thread is that, um, Gary posts here. It isn't cool to insult someone who's right next to you.

So it's cool to insult someone who's not in the immediate vicinity? Just joking.

I don't think it's cool to insult someone period, whether or not they are right next to you, or whether or not they are Gary Gygax.

No on deserves to be insulted. I think people tend to forget that on the Internet and even here at ENWorld

Speaking for myself, I respect Gary Gygax for being a major contributor to the RPG industry and as well as being a mastermind behind Dungeons and Dragons. I also respect the fact that he takes the time to visit the boards and immerse himself in the gamer community.

I have never heard of Richard Garfield until now, but I believe him being a creator of MtG also deserves respect as well.

I don't believe one person is better than another, but although I wouldn't use the word "revere", I guess I would give Gary Gygax a bit more respect than Richard Garfield just because I love DND and don't really play magic.

 

[Caspian Moon Prince]

Again, this was the very first result in the google search I posted. Amazing, this internet concept. Learn to use a search engine before you make accusations next time. gg nextmap

..Must not flame...Must not flame..

I'm just going to leave this alone before I say something that I'll regret.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

Lorriane was also respoable for all those Buck Rodgers Games that no one ever bought but always made it on to the production schedule.

A correction. *I* bought Buck Rogers the RPG, and friend of mine as well. I bought the computer games and loved them. I used eBay and a used gaming section at a store to replace my lost BR a year ago. You make poor assumptions about Buck Rogers.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Meaning no offense but can we please try to keep this on the original subject? I never get tired of learning about the early days of gaming... I played in those days but was too young to wonder about where the hobby came from. I'm not really interested in who hurt who's feelings with some offhand remark or how easy it is to insult someone who isn't sitting right next to you.

 

[dreaded_beast]

Meaning no offense but can we please try to keep this on the original subject? I never get tired of learning about the early days of gaming... I played in those days but was too young to wonder about where the hobby came from. I'm not really interested in who hurt who's feelings with some offhand remark or how easy it is to insult someone who isn't sitting right next to you.

I thought the original subject was Gary Gygax vs. Richard Garfield

Not the history of the game, although I'm sure that is a big reason why people like Gary Gygax.

I thought I answered, as a gamer, why I prefer Gary Gygax over Richard Garfield.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

Heh. You've never played Rolemaster, have you?

Ugh. Never again. Never, never, never. Death first.

Sorry to hear that, I picked up Rolemaster really quick, and self-taught
myself in high school. I can see how it would be daunting to learn though,
especialy for those comfortable with simpler games like D&D. There were
a lot of charts, but most you didn't even NEED to use, unless one was
rule-zealous.

As for Garfield vs Gygax, I'll wait till Mr Gygax recovers more, then place bets.

 

[Impeesa]

Heh. You've never played Rolemaster, have you?

Ugh. Never again. Never, never, never. Death first.

Actually, amusingly enough, I have. Played in a year-and-a-half long game that just gasped its last sometime earlier this spring. If you ease into it, and use Jonathan Dale's amazing character sheet, it's not nearly as complicated as some people make it out to be. Magic, on the other hand, has 6000+ unique cards, each of which has half its space devoted to describing how it modifies the already-huge rules (theoretically - I'm leaving out vanilla creatures and whatnot).

Not that I don't have a few issues with Rolemaster. Where else can I lay on my back in an open field watching the clouds and run the risk of death by impaling critical?

--Impeesa--

 

[RFisher]

It was an evolution. Charles Adiel Lewis Totten wrote a game for training army officers. Dave Wesely applied ideas from it to wargames and started Braunstiens. Dave Arneson, inspired partially by Perren & Gygax's* Chainmail, morphed the Braunstien idea into the Blackmoor campaign. He found the Chainmail rules lacking for his purposes, so began making & compiling new rules. Gygax was impressed by the Blackmoor campaign, borrowed Arneson's rule notebook, and wrote up his own set of rules influenced by them. Then started his own Greyhawk campaign.

And none of this was in a vacuum. Lots of other people contributed along the way, though their names don't end up in the histories. (I've seen both Arneson & Gygax mention Wesely in interviews, but his part is often left out of the retellings. I'm not entirely clear how Barker fits into the mix, but his campaign shouldn't be forgotten either.)

Gygax was the driving force behind codifying the D&D rules and getting them published. Whether it might have happened differently doesn't take away from the fact that he did it.

Love it or hate it, there is no denying the importance of OAD&D to the hobby. While those books represent the work of many people besides Gygax, there is a reason his name is on the cover of the MM, PHB, & DMG.

Those accomplishments alone have earned him the respect of many gamers. Certainly he has accomplished more than that.

He's not perfect. He's made mistakes. He's had failures. Still, he's earned a seat of honor in the industry.

I can't compare & contrast to Richard Garfield, because I know nothing about him.

(*Gygax has said Chainmail was primarily Perren's baby that he made some contributions to.)

Don't take my word for it, though. I've probably made mistakes. Research it yourself.

 

[woodelf]

Any citation from one of the principles would be appreciated. Or are you just repeating Internet gossip?

R.A.

I'm not the person you were questioning, but there's the whole he-said, he-said of Arneson's and Gygax's versions of events WRT the origins of D&D. That's at least one significant point, well-documented, where others question Gygax's take on what happened. Not saying Gygax is the one who's wrong [personally, i suspect they're both wrong, and probably to about the same degree], just that there is reputable counter-evidence.

Oh, and Arneson has gone on to do some educational stuff, i believe related to RPing. IIRC, that actually puts him a step above Gygax in my book--ising RPGs for education is definitely a greater contribution to society than continuing to develop RPGs as a commercial endeavor. But that's just my take on the matter.

 

[woodelf]

If it was that easy, I would never have to worry about another essay every again. Just to see how correct your google was. I've just gone to google and typed in Gary Gygax. The first link had nothing, nor did the second, nor the first few. Actually the first full page of links had very little that corresponded to anything sparxmith was referring to.

By the way, searching on "gary gygax" on Google leads to derverdammte's link as the 14th link down the screen. Not the first. Doing research is one thing (as if THIS site wasn't a legitimate source to go to for conducting that research) being obnoxious about it is another.

Which is probably why he suggested searching on "TSR gary gygax"--at least 2 of the top 3 links are then relevant, and reasonably succinct.