Ride skill and getting cover for free?

[AuraSeer]

But it also says "You can’t attack or cast spells while using your mount as cover", which makes no sense if it's instantaneous and doesn't take an action on your turn.

It does make sense. Remember that cover prevents AoO.

If it were possible to take cover from the mount while casting, you could cast in melee range without drawing AoO, without even a Concentration check. Or you could attempt a Sunder, Disarm, or other combat maneuver while denying your opponent the preemptive AoO. That's obviously too strong, so it's not allowed.

 

[Greylock]

Past about 5th level, your mounts start having less hit dice and hitpoints than you do, which means that you can be in trouble when your opponents target them.

Which is why my char is taking up the Windrider PrC at 6th level. That, and his new ante-deluvian destrier should keep things rolling along quite well...

 

[Aaron2]

This thread got me thinking and now I hope my clever players will never realise that the technically can ride straight into a group of enemies, make a fast dismount (ride dc 15) and then proceed to make a whirlwind attack.

It's great. Your horse can make a double move (120 ft.) plus you Spur Mount (+20 ft.), then you Fast Dismount in front of the creature (+5 ft.) and take a 5-foot step. That's 150 ft. of movement. And then you get to take your full-attack.


Aaron

 

[Lord Pendragon]

It's great. Your horse can make a double move (120 ft.) plus you Spur Mount (+20 ft.), then you Fast Dismount in front of the creature (+5 ft.) and take a 5-foot step. That's 150 ft. of movement. And then you get to take your full-attack.

From the SRD under the Ride skill:

Spur Mount: You can spur your mount to greater speed with a move action. A successful Ride check increases the mount’s speed by 10 feet for 1 round but deals 1 point of damage to the creature. You can use this ability every round, but each consecutive round of additional speed deals twice as much damage to the mount as the previous round (2 points, 4 points, 8 points, and so on).

Spur Mount is a move action, so no full attack for you.

And even if you decide not to spur your mount, from the SRD, Combat While Mounted:

If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack.

So again, no full attack for you.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

It does make sense. Remember that cover prevents AoO.

If it were possible to take cover from the mount while casting, you could cast in melee range without drawing AoO, without even a Concentration check. Or you could attempt a Sunder, Disarm, or other combat maneuver while denying your opponent the preemptive AoO. That's obviously too strong, so it's not allowed.

I can see what you're saying, but I still think full cover any time all the time is too much and not what was intended. Using the Immediate Action interpretation, a cavalier could basically attack as he wanted, while using the Take Cover option during everyone else's turn but his own, and have full cover all the time. That's insane, IMO.

Instead, I interpret Take Cover to be something you can only do on your turn. It doesn't cost an action to initiate, but doing so means you can't attack or cast spells. It's basically an improved version of Full Defense. So if your enemy is 400 yards away, you could drop down to the side of your horse and be covered while you charge across the intervening space. Then when you get there, you swing back into your saddle and start attacking, at which point you can't also have cover.

 

[Aaron2]

Instead, I interpret Take Cover to be something you can only do on your turn. It doesn't cost an action to initiate, but doing so means you can't attack or cast spells. It's basically an improved version of Full Defense. So if your enemy is 400 yards away, you could drop down to the side of your horse and be covered while you charge across the intervening space. Then when you get there, you swing back into your saddle and start attacking, at which point you can't also have cover.

You can still use a free action to Take Cover at the end of your turn after you have attacked. Then you have cover through the enemies actions.

Its kinda like quick drawing a dagger at the end of your action so you can AoO while holding a bow in the other hand.

Aaron

 

[AuraSeer]

I can see what you're saying, but I still think full cover any time all the time is too much and not what was intended.

It's not "full cover." Just regular cover.

Full cover means you are entirely behind some obstacle-- for instance, hiding behind a closed door. You can't attack the opponent, and they can't attack you, not even with targeted spells. That is not what we're discussing.

The term "Cover" means you are only partially behind an obstacle-- for instance, standing at an open window, or using the Ride skill to duck behind your mount. This gives you +4 AC and prevents attacks of opportunity, but you can still be targeted and attacked.

Maybe calling it "insane" would be justified if it granted full cover, but that's not what the ability does.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

It's not "full cover." Just regular cover.

Interesting. I was indeed thinking of total cover. For some reason I've always thought it went "No cover-Partial cover-Cover" but instead, re-reading the SRD section on cover, it seems to go "No cover-Cover-Total Cover."

So basically by making a DC 15 check, a mounted character gains a constant +4 AC, that stacks with nearly everything. Hrmm....need to consider this...

 

[Scharlata]

[...] So basically by making a DC 15 check, a mounted character gains a constant +4 AC, that stacks with nearly everything. Hrmm....need to consider this...

Hi!

That's what bothers me. It's too good.

Kind regards

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Hi!

That's what bothers me. It's too good.

Yes. I much rather liked my interpretation, which made it very much like Total Defense, or come to think of it, almost exactly like a tower shield. Useful in some situations, strong in those situations, but not overwhelming even when used.

Its kinda like quick drawing a dagger at the end of your action so you can AoO while holding a bow in the other hand.

And just to address this, I've never allowed this in my games. The abstract concept of simulated simultaneous action that D&D uses means that your AoOs are supposed to take place, in concept, at roughly the same time as everyone else's actions. Yes, I know that it doesn't work that way in actuality, but so long as there are no blatant exploitations of the system, I'm comfortable suspending disbelief. The quickdraw dagger thing breaks it for me, so I don't allow it.

And that's the same issue I have with this interpretation (possibly more correct than mine, but even so,) of the Ride skill. You can't be in your saddle attacking and flipped over the side of your saddle taking cover at the same time. Yet by "quickdraw covering," that's what you're doing.