Ridiculous amount of buffs

[Kestrel]

I shouldn't have included that example, I did do a lot of these things (assassins attacking thier homebase, folks prepping for them, etc) to combat that particular tactic.

My main point was do you think there should be limits on buffs in dnd? At what point do they become ridiculous? Do they add unneeded complexity to the game and what would be the result of limiting or getting rid of them? (to which there were some good replies)

 

[Azlan]

At what point does buffing become ridiculous?

When the game bogs down because the DM and the players are having trouble juggling and keeping track of it all.

For our group, that point is reached when, say, the bard plays his Inspire Courage song... and the wizard has cast Magic Circle Against Evil, as well as Mage Armor on herself... and cleric has cast Bull's Strength on the the group's ranger and paladin, and Cat's Grace on the rogue... and the rogue is getting flank attacks, and the ranger is getting attacks against favored enemies, and the paladin is smiting evil...

 

[helium3]

Well, it's really ultimately up to the party. The one I play with tends not to buff because they don't like the way it slows down the game.

Do you use dispel magic in the way other poster's suggested? The only downside of course is that the party then needs to spend time figuring out the new modifiers since dispel doesn't automatically remove all buffs.

Perhaps temporary buffs would be easier if they only conferred new abilities and immunities and buffs that applied modifiers could only be got through permanent magical items. It's much easier to remember that you're immune to fire or have the ability to fly.

Fourth edition maybe?

 

[painandgreed]

So long as the players can choose to engage in terms that favor them only, they will. Either take the advantage away from them or force them to act.

Monsters flee instead of fighting until reinforcements are gathered and buffs run out.

Monsters figure out what is going on and leave the dungeon to attack PCs. Seems any little thing you did could get high level assassins on your tail in T1, but you could walk in and out of the dungeon without ever worrying about being followed. Nulb and even Homlett are not safe places. just because the PCs decide they don't want to fight doesn't mean the monsters might not do their own buff and raid tactics.

Put them on a time table so they have to do more than the few rooms per day they are currently doing.

 

[NanocTheCivilized]

My personal view is that buffing is a real problem with the game - and it's one of the main reasons why my group gave up on 3.5. It's also a problem that PC buffing (both by spell and magic items) is assumed in the CR of monsters - so if you don't allow it the balance of the game is ruined.

There is a very effective anti-buff tactic though: cast Anti-Magic Field and charge with your troll and rust monster minions in close support. AMF stops spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities, but not exceptional ones. Troll regeneration and rust monster rusting are, of course, exceptional...

Cheers
Nanoc

 

[phindar]

"Extraordinary", but the point you make is a good one.

 

[khyron1144]

Play 1e or 2e where the only buffs available are:
Shield, Armor, Enlarge, Strength, Haste, and Stone Skin
and maybe, depending on how you decide what is a buff,
Invisibility, Improved Invisibility, Continual Darkness, and Detect Magic.

 

[Thomas Percy]

My idea for new buffs:
1. There are no +1/-1 buffs, only yes or no buffs.
2. Buffs are for real spellcasters (as Wiz, Clr) only, buffs (Sp) for monsters are alraeady included in stats.
3. You can't dispel a buff, they all are Su.

 

[molonel]

My personal view is that buffing is a real problem with the game - and it's one of the main reasons why my group gave up on 3.5. It's also a problem that PC buffing (both by spell and magic items) is assumed in the CR of monsters - so if you don't allow it the balance of the game is ruined.

There is a very effective anti-buff tactic though: cast Anti-Magic Field and charge with your troll and rust monster minions in close support. AMF stops spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities, but not exceptional ones. Troll regeneration and rust monster rusting are, of course, exceptional...

Buffing is part of the game, and it's always been part of the game.

Anti-magic fields are scary once in a while, but they place a blinking neon sign above your DM if he or she uses they ALL the time that says, "Uncreative."

 

[JohnSnow]

How about a simple rule for the number of buffs (spell-provided) that can be active on a given character at once? Like, say, 1-3 with a few caveats.

For example, only one attribute buff at a time. If you are already the beneficiary of a Bull's Strength spell, and you get hit with Fox's cunning, your Int takes a bump, but your strength buff goes *poof*.

No combining barkskin and stoneskin, the one supercedes the other. And so forth.

I'm thinking, one attribute buff, one attack buff, one general ability buff (like speed), and one defensive buff.

So you could be the beneficiary of Bull's Strength, Haste, Magic Weapon and Stoneskin - but that's it. Categorize the buffs by type.

That cuts down on the management of high-level stats as well.

Hmmm...

Concept *Yoinked* for magic system in development.