TSR Rob Kuntz Recounts The Origins Of D&D

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In this interesting article from Kotaku, Rob Kuntz relates a history of early TSR that differs somewhat from the narrative we usually hear. It delves into the relationship between Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson (D&D's co-creators) and the actual development of the game, which dates back to Arneson in 1971.

Dungeons & Deceptions: The First D&D Players Push Back On The Legend Of Gary Gygax

Everybody calls Rob Kuntz last, he says. Those who want to know about the history of Dungeons & Dragons start with co-creator Gary Gygax’s kids, one of Gygax’s biographers, or D&D publisher Wizards of the Coast. As they’re wrapping things up, they might get around to dialing up Kuntz, a...

kotaku.com

 

[Rob Kuntz]

A lot of people hold this belief, but is there really any basis for this? In the early 70s, Dave wrote a series of articles submitted to Gary's fan magazine, the Domesday Book. Dave published the game Don't Give Up The Ship (co-written with Mike Carr and Gary Gygax) and later went on to publish RPGs like Adventures in Fantasy and Trapman as well as adventures for Shadowrun and various other RPGs.

As Rob Kuntz mentions in this thread, Dave clearly had the intent of getting his Blackmoor game published.

Would a game by Dave without Gary have been as good or as successful? That is a different question and we will never know the answer to that one.

I am definitely not disputing Gary's contributions to the game. But I think we shouldn't dismiss Dave as simply a man with ideas either.



-Havard

The only thing that needs correcting is that DB was not a fan magazine by Gary. It was a Societal affiliated newsletter organ of the IFW (International Federation of Wargaming)--more specifically of the Castle & Crusade Society as adjunct:

It was formed by Gary Gygax and Rob Kuntz in 1970. Its starting membership included Gary Gygax, Rob Kuntz and Jeff Perren, and as of mid-April 1970, also included Dave Arneson.

Castle & Crusade Society - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rob Kuntz]

Well, that was fun!!

 

[Zardnaar]

Do you still play if so what edition?

 

[Oldtimer]

Well by 1974/75 I was 19/20 years, a young adult and had two publishing credits...

You were two years ahead of me in age and a universe ahead of me in publishing credits then.

Do you still have that letter? I'd love to see a copy of it for posterity and historical purposes if you do!

I'll see if I can find it. A lot of entropy has accumulated over the years. But I'll dive into the darkest corners and see what I can find.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

Do you still play if so what edition?

I don't play here in Corsica, too isolated and it's a tourist spot. Back in the states and when at conventions I play my variety of AD&D, no UA, except for some minor things like magic, spells and all of it house ruled from the old days carried forward. At ATHENSCON 2017 I showcased my redone Lake Level from 1973 and it was crafted for AD&D 1st edition. Ran two sessions. Beware the coconut crabs!

 

[Rob Kuntz]

You were two years ahead of me in age and a universe ahead of me in publishing credits then.


I'll see if I can find it. A lot of entropy has accumulated over the years. But I'll dive into the darkest corners and see what I can find.

Heh. Don't destroy too much with that pick of yours! If you find it it will be a joy. The "Chairman" bit was because I was the Chairman of GENCON (75/76). Many thanks in advance and take it easy!

 

[Sacrosanct]

I don't play here in Corsica, too isolated and it's a tourist spot. Back in the states and when at conventions I play my variety of AD&D, no UA, except for some minor things like magic, spells and all of it house ruled from the old days carried forward. At ATHENSCON 2017 I showcased my redone Lake Level from 1973 and it was crafted for AD&D 1st edition. Ran two sessions. Beware the coconut crabs!

I know this doesn't mean as much as I want it to mean, but I'll take it as a stamp of approval and appeal to authority every time I tell someone "UA was not 1e, and almost never allowed."

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Alzrius]

The idea that he was not going to publish it eventually is of course a non-fact as he was seeking to do so. He had invested 1.5 years in play-testing and iterating it and in creating the breakthrough architecture for it in order to do so. Lowry passed and so did AH, much to their dismay later on, of course. But that was because they did not know what it was. Arneson had proven what it was and thought it suitable for publication, thus the Demo 1.5 years later.

This is interesting because it potentially refutes the idea that without Gary Gygax's involvement, D&D would never have come into being as not just a commercial product, let alone become as wildly successful as it did. I say "potentially" because, as a counterfactual, it's impossible to know for sure. Nevertheless, Rob, I want to ask if you can expound on what you've said here. Specifically:

1) Had Arneson refined his game to the point where it was written down as a whole product (i.e. contained all the rules necessary for play), and said written product would be understandable to someone who had never participated in a role-playing session before?
2) If so, why did Gygax feel the need to rewrite so much of it (was it only due to personal jealousy, as you've noted previously)?
3) With both Don Lowry and Avalon Hill having elected to pass on his game, who was Arneson planning on demoing it for if Gygax hadn't jumped on it?
4) Do you think that Arneson's game, lacking any significant rewriting or editing from someone else, would have reached the same level of popularity and commercial success that Dungeons & Dragons did?