Rogue Mastermind Archetype Up, Courtesy of Extra Life

They stole my my help as a bonus action idea...

 

[TwoSix]

This is the strange thing about magic in this game. When it's convenient for people, magic suddenly becomes a science that doesn't "rewrite reality" because it's consistent within the physics of the universe. But when that's not a convenient position to take, then magic suddenly becomes something that "alters the fabric of reality" in a manner that is inconsistent with the physics of the universe. This is that bizarre notion of magic exceptionalism that I find at once peculiar and frustrating. It time and time and time again provides casters with 'get out of fairness free cards' that are not permitted to non-casters such that there is very little drawback for primary casters because it's one stat fits all.

What I find frustrating is that "magic" has to be bundled with spell slots and magical items. I'd think a 5' girl able to lift a 400 lb boulder with her 18 Strength is obviously magical, but since she isn't pulling out her spell component pouch...

Living in a D&D world makes you magic. It's not medieval Europe with monsters on top.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

What I find frustrating is that "magic" has to be bundled with spell slots and magical items. I'd think a 5' girl able to lift a 400 lb boulder with her 18 Strength is obviously magical, but since she isn't pulling out her spell component pouch...

Does she lose that strength in an anti-magic field?

 

[Orlax]

This is the strange thing about magic in this game. When it's convenient for people, magic suddenly becomes a science that doesn't "rewrite reality" because it's consistent within the physics of the universe. But when that's not a convenient position to take, then magic suddenly becomes something that "alters the fabric of reality" in a manner that is inconsistent with the physics of the universe. This is that bizarre notion of magic exceptionalism that I find at once peculiar and frustrating. It time and time and time again provides casters with 'get out of fairness free cards' that are not permitted to non-casters such that there is very little drawback for primary casters because it's one stat fits all.

Except their ability to stat replace is limited in multiple ways. For instance if the sorc wants to be the pack mule character they must spend a limited resource, spell slots, on tensers disk, and they can't do it all day nor can they do it without it being one of their limited spells known, and (I'm pretty sure) it can be taken away by a failed concentration check. Yes they are using magic to rewrite reality to create a floating disk of force and they are limited in what it can actually accomplish. We do have to apply some reason to the spells because it's a system used to describe and limit how characters can go about rewriting reality. Yes magic is whole hog rewriting reality. That's what it is. Yes reality has some rules governing how it can be rewritten, and those rules maintain some level of internal consistency. Yes magic gets passes as to what is acceptable within its bounds because it maintains the fact that the people using it are essentially cheating at reality. In the words of Dresden "I'm a wizard, I cheat". There are drawbacks for primary casters, because they are limited in various ways with regards to what they can accomplish with magic, weather that be by daily limits on what they can accomplish (limited spell slots), character wide limitations (limited spells known, or limited spells prepared for a day), or spell specific limitations (concentration), or even a "you can't do that with magic" limitation (no spell exists to accomplish what you are trying to accomplish). Unlike straight stat replacement spell casting is not one stat fits all, it's one stat has slightly expanded usage in a limited capacity and is not predicated on mundane capability, it is specifically predicated on them breaking some of the rules of reality in incredibly limited ways. Even moreso the spell casting doesn't obfuscate the meaning of stats. That wizard with 8 strength and 18 int won't be lifting anything on his own without the help of others, magic, or levers, whereas straight stat replacement allows a total moron (you have an 8 int by definition that's what an 8 int means) to solve calculus equations because they have an 18 strength. On that same level a near invalid can kill a man with a normal non magical punch because they use their 18 int for attack and damage instead of their 8 strength even though their 8 strength would make any punch they throw a completely ineffectual effort no matter how well they know anatomy.

 

[TwoSix]

Does she lose that strength in an anti-magic field?

Not in my campaigns. Anti-magic disrupts the flow of things powered by arcane practices, so spells dissipate and magic items turn off, but the ambient magic that allows dragons to fly, vampires to exist, and high level characters to survive falling off cliffs all continues.

 

[Orlax]

What I find frustrating is that "magic" has to be bundled with spell slots and magical items. I'd think a 5' girl able to lift a 400 lb boulder with her 18 Strength is obviously magical, but since she isn't pulling out her spell component pouch...

Living in a D&D world makes you magic. It's not medieval Europe with monsters on top.

I'm sorry you made an illogical character (actually not all that illogical I'm pretty sure I know a girl around that height and weight, probably a little bit heavier, that can put up that much iron because she is a body builder). If only strength dex and con had some mechanical impact upon size and weight measurements and those measurements were not entirely arbitrary.

 

[Orlax]

Not in my campaigns. Anti-magic disrupts the flow of things powered by arcane practices, so spells dissipate and magic items turn off, but the ambient magic that allows dragons to fly, vampires to exist, and high level characters to survive falling off cliffs all continues.

Essentially you are trying to make the waif fu Buffy the vampire slayer example. Her strength was entirely magical, and could entirely be disrupted with magic.

 

[TwoSix]

I'm sorry you made an illogical character (actually not all that illogical I'm pretty sure I know a girl around that height and weight, probably a little bit heavier, that can put up that much iron because she is a body builder). If only strength dex and con had some mechanical impact upon size and weight measurements and those measurements were not entirely arbitrary.

I suppose that could put that in, but that's simulationist stuff I wouldn't bother reading more than once.

And why you are sorry? She's not illogical, she's genre specific.

 

[TwoSix]

Essentially you are trying to make the waif fu Buffy the vampire slayer example. Her strength was entirely magical, and could entirely be disrupted with magic.

Thanks, man, I was completely unaware of the genre archetypes I was drawing from! And that's Buffy. In my campaign, it could happen, sure, just like a Wizard could get feebleminded.

 

[Orlax]

Thanks, man, I was completely unaware of the genre archetypes I was drawing from! And that's Buffy. In my campaign, it could happen, sure, just like a Wizard could get feebleminded.

So her strength would fade in an anti magic field then, because it's coming from a magical source like slayer strength does?

 

[Remathilis]

Sigh. Can we stop fighting the "I want my fighter to jump over mountains using his Charisma and its totally Non-magical" wars of 4e and get back to discussing the 5e mastermind?