Rogues get 5/level

[kodyboy]

while it says 5hp/level gained, it does not say the con modifier is not added every level. I suppose it could be ommited, but it might not be ommited too, it simply does not say. At first level it is not the con modifier, but the con itself that is added.

 

[JohnSnow]

Well, we know that the rogue gets:

12 + CON Score at Level 1.
5 hp per level thereafter.

If we assume that the 120 hp on a 15th-level fighter is accurate, we have to figure out some values that are reasonably in range of the rogue, and reasonably produce 120 hp.

Essentially, this is an algebra equation (call it A)...with too many variables...

A) X + CON + 14Y = 120

Assume, for a moment, that our Level 15 fighter would have a Con of 16. That reduces Equation A to the following (we'll call it Equation B):

B) X + 14Y = 104

Now we just need to take a guess at some values for Y.

If Y = 5, then 14 Y = 70, and X = 34. Which seems kinda high, but maybe.

If Y = 6, then 14 Y = 84, and X = 20. Which seems reasonable.

If Y = 7, then 14 Y = 98, and X = 6. Which is obviously crap.

Now, if you take a lower number for the Con, say 14 (odd numbers don't give good results), you get X = 36, or 22. The first is possible, but seems WAY high to me. Besides, the fighter should get more than the thief as they go up in level. And 22 is just a weird number. So, in my opinion, the fighter will get:

Hit Points at 1st Level: 20 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 6

And, if you want me to make a whacky guess, the wizard will get:

Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4

 

[Cobalt Meridian]

Well, we know that the rogue gets:

12 + CON Score at Level 1.
5 hp per level thereafter.

If we assume that the 120 hp on a 15th-level fighter is accurate, we have to figure out some values that are reasonably in range of the rogue, and reasonably produce 120 hp.

Essentially, this is an algebra equation (call it A)...with too many variables...

A) X + CON + 14Y = 120

Assume, for a moment, that our Level 15 fighter would have a Con of 16. That reduces Equation A to the following (we'll call it Equation B):

B) X + 14Y = 104

Now we just need to take a guess at some values for Y.

If Y = 5, then 14 Y = 70, and X = 34. Which seems kinda high, but maybe.

If Y = 6, then 14 Y = 84, and X = 20. Which seems reasonable.

If Y = 7, then 14 Y = 98, and X = 6. Which is obviously crap.

Now, if you take a lower number for the Con, say 14 (odd numbers don't give good results), you get X = 36, or 22. The first is possible, but seems WAY high to me. Besides, the fighter should get more than the thief as they go up in level. And 22 is just a weird number. So, in my opinion, the fighter will get:

Hit Points at 1st Level: 20 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 6

And, if you want me to make a whacky guess, the wizard will get:

Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4

Firstly, VERY nice breakdown - lovely to see someone approaching this logically.

I would agree that 20+CON for a fighter and 8+CON for a wizard 'feels' right ((2x max current hit dice) + CON)). I'm not so sure that 6/level thereafter for a fighter 'feels' right though. Although I'm obviously looking at this through 3.xE coloured lenses/blinkers and hence could be completely wrong

Maybe the 120 hit points for a 15th level fighter is actually a bit on the low side. If a pit fiend has 250hp at 26th maybe we can extrapolate and say that a 15th level fighter will have close to 15/26ths of that value (144 or so) which could allow for 7 or even 8 hit points per level.

These are just my thoughts but however you look at it it does seem that hit point distributions are going to quite different under 4e.

 

[Kintara]

X+CON+LVL*RATE=Z
Example Fighter: X+CON+14Y=[120]<-unclear whether it's a valid result, or merely an acceptable number from a designer perspective, or deliberate fuzziness.
Rogue: 12+CON+LVL*5=Z
Con is really the only variable in the equation for an example character of a particular level, if you know the rules already.


Test Fighter: 14+14+14*6=112 If 120 is a "soft" number, then this seems barely acceptable enough to me. Less than 5 is probably better, if the 120 result is really indicative of Fighters at level 15.
An equivalent Rogue: 12+14+14*5=96 A mere 16 point difference for a Rogue with 14 Con (or 24 points from 120). But maybe healing surges are where it's at. I donno.

Test Fighter: 16+16+14*6=116 Closer to 120....
Test Fighter: 18+14+14*8=144 I don't think a designer would "guesstimate" his example 14 points off, if it really was made with 4e's specific rules in mind at all, given the non-random nature of the math. The 120 would probably have to be counted as deliberate (or possibly non-deliberate) fuzziness before it would work for me.

Huh. It's kind of interesting to fiddle like this.