Role Playing Intelligence

[Dandu]

As a player, it is probably most difficult to RP average intelligence (given that role players tend to have above average intelligence)

Bah humbug.

 

[Empirate]

When I DM, I like to give exceptional knowledge and insight to the players of PCs who have a special niche in which they're experts. For example, the Int 10 Barbarian/Fighter in my last campaign frequently had moments of tactical understanding and insight: even though he was of average intellect, in his field of expertise (he was an army officer), he was very competent and could even tell the mage what to do from time to time. This was a collaboration between the (very intelligent) player and me giving hints.


My own character, whom I play in a different group, is an Int 20, Wis 8, Cha 12 Wizard. I find him a bit hard to roleplay from time to time, but I've already had a lot of fun in pure RP situations, as well. I'm roleplaying his low Wis as mainly affecting his situational awareness and perception: I'm not in Calimshan anymore, but I regularly try and bribe the good, upstanding people of Tethyr, because that's what was socially acceptable back home; people are really depressed and down, so I try and lighten the mood with a bad joke that totally backfires; the situation is dangerous as hell, we have to be vewy, vewy kwiet indeed, but I simply forget about it for a second there and yell at somebody over a minor issue. Stuff like that.

At other times, I try and play against the stereotype for a bit. For example, when I met a childhood friend again after many years (another PC), and she told me about the rough time she's had, I could sympathize well enough and even give insightful advice about how to cope with her personal crisis: I know her, like her, and am focused on her problems when she tells me about them, so my usual 'head-in-the-clouds, not-really-with-you-guys mode' doesn't come into play. My character is rather likable and good with people he comes to care about, after all (Cha 12).

Problem solving, quickly grasping the essentials of a problem, remembering important information, tactical stuff - all those are governed by intelligence, as far as I'm concerned. So in these areas, my character is supposed to be brilliant, and I'm trying to use my brain as efficiently as possible when these things are called for.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

In my latest game the DM basically said "if you as players can think of it, it'll work." It's the simplest way to go about things.

There are definitely some times where you have to adjudicate certain responses though. For instance, when the character is more knowledgeable than the player. I remember one time my cleric rolled for a Knowledge: The Planes check and succeeded with a 25ish, and I honestly had no idea what to say, so I BSed an answer. What I probably should have done is have the DM say what my character knew.

That's usually what it will come down to in a good game: The DM and the players work together to tell the story.

As far as the player knowing certain things the character might not, I find it's best to do relevant rolls and go with the result. Got an Int 16 plan but roll about a 10 instead? You're smart enough to make it a bit half-baked.

Roleplaying below-average characters is kinda similar. You might just roll dice and hope you get lucky enough to pull out something fantastic. Some people might find that emulating someone they know is effective, if a bit insulting in a way.

 

[Jimlock]

Over all, you have to go with the Rp on it, because there's really no way to tell someone that they can't use an idea they have. So reward the good RP, particularly when it results in the PC's using a less than optimal plan in order to stay in character.

This

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I don't have a problem with "Big Dumb Fighter" coming up with brilliant small unit tactics. He's got an Intelligence score of what, 8 or 10?

Wolves have an Intelligence score of two.

 

[NiteCyper]

I tend to give RP bonuses for exceptional play. So if the 8 Int character keeps acting like the 16 Int player, it will be noted, pointed out, and he'll lose out on that Exp.

While novel, this can be rebuked for the possibility of undesirable shaping.

"Dude, what are you doing? You aren't supposed to bla-bla-bla."
"But my last DM rewarded us for it." You are deciding what is good roleplay, passing judgment on a player's roleplay efforts, and connecting what roleplay that you like, to power. Moot if you play for just the numbers, but otherwise...

Intrinsic motivation vs. extrinsic
When children were told to finger-paint explicitly for a reward, when later they were posed with the opportunity to fingerpaint, they were less likely to do so of their own volition. That is the consequence of extrinsic motivation called motivation crowding theory.

When fingerpainting children were given a reward because they were finger-painting without foreknowledge, they were more likely to fingerpaint of their accord. They didn't start finger-painting FOR a reward, they did it because they wanted to and then were rewarded for their innate desire. That's intrinsic motivation.

So, while RP XP isn't all bad, pointing out that one'll lose out on RP-XP extrinsically-motivates (and thus motivation-crowds), making players less likely to RP without the promise of a reward. One can decide to only reward for successively better RP-performance. Do not be so hasty in giving your horse-players a lick of that salt-cube of power, lest ye are nipped in return for more.

 

[Li Shenron]

Do you allow a character with an 8 intelligence to do brilliant things because their player is brilliant? If not, how do you stop it?

Absolutely yes. One of my worst gaming experiences was being prevented to speak up too many good ideas related to solving the plot because my PC had low Int.

You can have dumb players play genius wizards, can't you? How are you going to force them to play smart if they aren't capable?

I say, always reward a player that is playing smart. If then the player decides to purposefully do something dumb "because my half-orc barbarian would surely do it", reward her as well for roleplaying well

Anyway, there are mechanics in the game that will give a low-Int character some penalties, no matter what the player does.

Conversely, if your moron friend is playing an 18 Int wizard, do you grant Int rolls for them to realize things that the player has not?

I've done this sometimes, for example I often used puzzles to open doors, disable traps and so on. Normally it's always best to make solving such puzzle not the only way to proceed, but sometimes it happens that you thought they would have solved it quickly and instead they got stuck. I'm not against granting an Int roll to give them a clue at that point, but I won't just hand out the solution.

But then puzzles and plot are not something that are resolved by individuals, they are challenges for the whole group (of players!).

Also, as a player how do you handle this?

I play at my best But yeah... occasionally I have purposefully done things that weren't the smartest or most convenient. I have to say however, that this happens to me much more often because I am playing someone good, not someone dumb

 

[NiteCyper]

notions about puzzles

*slams the table* Submit the evidence!

 

[Li Shenron]

Just to make it clear... when I say "reward the players", I didn't mean to give them XP for good roleplay. I used to do that in my very early DM days, but I changed my mind long ago. I just meant "let them get their own reward" which is the natural outcome of their smart choice (and let them know you appreciate)... don't punish them or rule0 that they can't do it.

 

[Empirate]

NOT a "my fun is better than yours" post; just an observation on what the fantastically ambiguous term "good roleplaying" has come to mean in the group I've been gaming with for more than a decade:


I feel good roleplayers should easily be capable of playing dumber than they, the players, are. Constantly shooting out solutions to puzzles and well-crafted tactical plans when you're playing an Int 6 Half-Orc Barbarian smacks of "I need good Str, Dex, and Con! I have to dump some attribute! But I still should be rewarded for being smart as a player, even if I choose not to roleplay!" to me.

Dumb players not "roleplaying" smart characters well has nothing to do with this: a slow player simply isn't capable of coming up with all the clever things an Int 18 Wizard will pull out of a hat on a regular basis. That's not bad roleplaying, it's simply outside the player's limitations. A good DM will make sure the player doesn't feel compelled to always play the abovementioned Int 6 Barbarian.

A smart player OTOH, especially a smart guy who's also a good roleplayer, can dumb it down - that's within his limitations. He can and should restrain himself from always taking those moments of spotlight other players (of smarter PCs) may feel should be reserved for their characters' talents.