When the spell 'Rope Trick' is cast, it creates an extradimensional space at the top of a perpendicular rope. My players argue that the dimensional pocket is not specifically anchored in space beyond being connected to the top of the rope. Ergo, they reason that a rope trick can actually be moved by holding the rope at the bottom and carrying the pocket around like a balloon. This allows a mage to carry the entire 'ropetricked' party with a single teleportation spell, by holding on to the rope while he casts it. We just can't decide if this is a logical use of the rules or not. Please help my brain. DMing a group of philosophers can lead to schizophrenia.
Rope trick teleportation?
- Thread starter Abraxus
- Start date
Gilladian
Adventurer
The rope allows access to a multidimensional space that is outside the rest of the multiverse. Also, the rope CAN be pulled loose from the space. Somehow I think that clearly indicates the space is NOT dependent on the rope for its existence, and cannot be towed around. Nothing in the description implies movement (no speed, no damage from being thrown around during movement, etc...) so obviously the designer never thought of it moving.
Also, it's hellishly more useful (ie broken) if you allow movement. If you allow teleportation on top of that, bump the spell up by 3 levels.
Also, it's hellishly more useful (ie broken) if you allow movement. If you allow teleportation on top of that, bump the spell up by 3 levels.
Sekhmet
First Post
The spell does not allow movement, nor does it allow for teleportation.
If you do allow teleportation - give it a chance of catastrophic failure. Since the extradimensional space is planar in nature, it does not allow specific locations to be named for the end result of a teleportation spell (You cannot proclaim exactly where you'll end up when using any form of planar shifting).
Allow for the teleportation to work as desired, but roll percentile for each inhabitant of the space. On a 90% or higher, the inhabitatant is teleported to a random location on a random adjacent plane (Fire, Water, Earth, Air, Ethereal, Astral, Shadow, or Prime Material). A d8 works perfectly for this decision.
If you do not want to mess with it -that- much, examine the spell's description more closely;
Teleportation simply does not work across the planes, which is why we have Planar Shifting spells. The Wizard would be teleported, the rope would remain precisely where it was (as it is anchored in the extradimensional space beyond the reach of spells).
If you do allow teleportation - give it a chance of catastrophic failure. Since the extradimensional space is planar in nature, it does not allow specific locations to be named for the end result of a teleportation spell (You cannot proclaim exactly where you'll end up when using any form of planar shifting).
Allow for the teleportation to work as desired, but roll percentile for each inhabitant of the space. On a 90% or higher, the inhabitatant is teleported to a random location on a random adjacent plane (Fire, Water, Earth, Air, Ethereal, Astral, Shadow, or Prime Material). A d8 works perfectly for this decision.
If you do not want to mess with it -that- much, examine the spell's description more closely;
SRD said:
Teleportation simply does not work across the planes, which is why we have Planar Shifting spells. The Wizard would be teleported, the rope would remain precisely where it was (as it is anchored in the extradimensional space beyond the reach of spells).
Theo R Cwithin
I cast "Baconstorm!"
Let them try it. Then tell them to roll up new characters. Do not tell them that their previous characters accidentally discovered (the hard way) how to create a highly unstable form of sphere of annihilation.
Straight from the mouth of a Jann Monk:
There are two points:
1. The extra-dimensional space is not at any particular location within the space of the world in which the rope trick is cast. The end of the rope acts as a point of connection to the extra-dimensional space, though, it is not dependent on the space the rope is in actuality occupying in the 'material' world. The spell clearly reads, that the fixture of the rope is: "as if affixed at the upper end." - Rope Trick, PHB
2. The point of teleportation is that it is, teleportation, not movement. The rope doesn't 'move', and therefore constitute a pulling, as much as change place instantaneously. The rope's location is changed in its entirety, the end of the rope leads to a door in extra-dimensional space; it is not that the door in extra-dimensional space is affixed to the location the rope is originally cast at, i.e., the end of the rope is the door, not the location in physical space where the rope trick was originally cast.
Therefore as the rope is not affixed, nor is it 'move' by the teleportation in anything bar location in the 'material' world, there is no 'tearing' between the physical and the extra-dimentional space. The mage holds the rope, teleports and the party climbs back down the rope for some good old trojan horse style pillaging.
The affixture is not something in material space, it is being pulled from the extra-dimensional door, which requires an action on the rope, yet the rope's form does not change through teleportation.
Just because it is an oversight in the rules, on a meta level, does not mean it isn't possible within the game. Sure, it might be broken, though I think it's development is sufficiently scarce to allow its use in context. The DM can always ban it, she is, after all, the lord of space and time.
There are two points:
1. The extra-dimensional space is not at any particular location within the space of the world in which the rope trick is cast. The end of the rope acts as a point of connection to the extra-dimensional space, though, it is not dependent on the space the rope is in actuality occupying in the 'material' world. The spell clearly reads, that the fixture of the rope is: "as if affixed at the upper end." - Rope Trick, PHB
2. The point of teleportation is that it is, teleportation, not movement. The rope doesn't 'move', and therefore constitute a pulling, as much as change place instantaneously. The rope's location is changed in its entirety, the end of the rope leads to a door in extra-dimensional space; it is not that the door in extra-dimensional space is affixed to the location the rope is originally cast at, i.e., the end of the rope is the door, not the location in physical space where the rope trick was originally cast.
Therefore as the rope is not affixed, nor is it 'move' by the teleportation in anything bar location in the 'material' world, there is no 'tearing' between the physical and the extra-dimentional space. The mage holds the rope, teleports and the party climbs back down the rope for some good old trojan horse style pillaging.
The affixture is not something in material space, it is being pulled from the extra-dimensional door, which requires an action on the rope, yet the rope's form does not change through teleportation.
Just because it is an oversight in the rules, on a meta level, does not mean it isn't possible within the game. Sure, it might be broken, though I think it's development is sufficiently scarce to allow its use in context. The DM can always ban it, she is, after all, the lord of space and time.
Greenfield
Adventurer
On the one hand...
Since the rope can be detached from the extradimensional space, it is therefore separate from that space, and constitutes neither an opening nor an anchor.
Teleporting with the rope in your hand would indeed take the rope with you.
The opening to the extradimensional space would of course be left behind, as would any occupants. All you've done is detach the rope.
Teleport specifically says that it can't perform interplanar travel, so I don't see any way it could affect the people in the dimensional pocket.
On the other hand...
Would a caster leave behind a Bag of Holding, or its contents? Or a Portable Hole?
If I had to make a hard ruling, I'd cast Dispel BS on the entire thing, and limit the caster to the normal rules of Teleport, in terms of load and passengers.
And if someone or something gets left behind, toss a coin to see which group gets the Rope Trick, and which one gets either:
A: Left in an extradimensional bubble with no exits, a bubble that will vanish after the spell's duration expires.
B: Gets to drop 5 to 30 feet on their collective kiesters as their bubble leaves them behind.
Oh, and I'd dice to see who stays and who goes.
Since the rope can be detached from the extradimensional space, it is therefore separate from that space, and constitutes neither an opening nor an anchor.
Teleporting with the rope in your hand would indeed take the rope with you.
The opening to the extradimensional space would of course be left behind, as would any occupants. All you've done is detach the rope.
Teleport specifically says that it can't perform interplanar travel, so I don't see any way it could affect the people in the dimensional pocket.
On the other hand...
Would a caster leave behind a Bag of Holding, or its contents? Or a Portable Hole?
If I had to make a hard ruling, I'd cast Dispel BS on the entire thing, and limit the caster to the normal rules of Teleport, in terms of load and passengers.
And if someone or something gets left behind, toss a coin to see which group gets the Rope Trick, and which one gets either:
A: Left in an extradimensional bubble with no exits, a bubble that will vanish after the spell's duration expires.
B: Gets to drop 5 to 30 feet on their collective kiesters as their bubble leaves them behind.
Oh, and I'd dice to see who stays and who goes.
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