Rope trick teleportation?

[Theo R Cwithin]

To my mind, tthe real question is can you teleport the "window" to the pocket space. Or, by extension, "Is the rope equivalent to the 'window', and so by teleporting the rope, are you teleporting the 'window'?"

The fact that one can pull the rope free sugessts to me it's just a rope, and is not intrisically related to the "extradimensionalness" of the pocket space. IOW, the rope is not the "window", it's simply affixed to it. You can pull the rope free, but someone in the pocket space can still dangle a completely different rope out of the "window", and climb back to the where he started. Whether the original rope was yanked out by a team of elephants or teleported away is irrelevant; the "window" to the pocket space remains in place.

Another way to look at it is that the "window" isn't a real thing that can be teleported; its just a hole. Unlike a bag of holding or something, there's no structure in place for the teleport to "hold onto" and carry the pocket space's "window" along. Of course, you could argue that the rope is that structure... but then why doesn't pulling it free maroon the people in the rope trick space?

Or does it?

But yeah, interesting question. A solid "DM's call".

 

[Arrowhawk]

I have to agree with Theo. First, let's all acknowledge that there is no real science/physics behind what we are talking about...and there is no actual "truth."

If you read the spell description, it's clear that magic allows any ordinary rope to "fasten" to a worm"bubble" if you will. Since the rope can be pulled free, clearly the wormbubble is not attached to the rope, but vice versa. One could logically argue that you cannot move or displace the wormbubble because it is created in that specific fabric of magic/space/time (the "MST"). Teleporting the rope would simply teleport any portion of the rope which is not phsycially in the wormbubble.

The teleport spell doesn't teleport the MST fabric...it teleports things within the MST. It certainly can't teleport an extradimensional space, and teleporting the rope does not work because the rope is attached to the bubble, not the other way around. To put it another way, if you could move the bubble, the rope would be pulled along for the ride.

This doesn't seem that complicated.

 

[Dandu]

I still want to know what happens when the planet moves away from the specific part of space-time the Rope Trick is cast at.

 

[FoxWander]

Sorry Abraxus. After talking this over with my wife (who's also a DM) it looks like I have to switch sides and join the "it doesn't work" camp. She pointed out- the fact that rope can be pulled free AT ALL is what matters. That indicates the extra-dimensional space itself is not movable.

The fact that it takes more force than the rope itself can take to pull it free (the rope would rip apart way before you could put 16K of force on it) simply reinforces this. The ED space is fixed at the point in the world where it is created by casting the spell. Trying to move it will destroy the rope before the ED space moves. In fact, I doubt you'd even bring the rope along with a teleport, since it's attached to an immovable "object".

My previous comparisons to Familiar Pockets or extra-dimensional magic items don't count because those effects are explicitly attached to movable objects. Those ED spaces are "designed" to go along with the item they're attached to. So I'd have to say the trick doesn't work after all.

 

[FoxWander]

I still want to know what happens when the planet moves away from the specific part of space-time the Rope Trick is cast at.

That's the part where you just have to say "it's magic!" and move on. The spell 'anchors' itself to the spot in the world where it's created. So it will move with the planet but get left behind if you cast it on a moving ship.

I think that's the only explanation that works, otherwise you wind up trying to figure out how north-south teleportation doesn't send you flying laterally at hundreds of miles per hour upon reaching your destination due to rotational speed differences. Or why the fighter's legs don't shatter when you cast Enlarge Person on him. Or a thousand other physics/magic problems.

 

[Hassassin]

Also, it is probably a bad idea to cast Rope Trick while you're in a ship.

Actually, it makes a damn good anchor if you tie it first:

The rope can support up to 16,000 pounds. A weight greater than that can pull the rope free.

I'm going to try it for dragon hunting the next time I'm a player. Just some lasso skill to get a dragon on leash and a rope trick to stop it. 16,000 pounds ought to be enough to snap its neck if I can get it in-flight.

 

[Greenfield]

I feel you are missing the point Greenfield. The whole idea is that the extradimensional space itself is not teleported as it is already outside the material universe. The people inside the rope trick are also not teleported per se either, because they are likewise already sitting within this dimensional pocket. Teleporting with the rope simply allows the entrance to this space to open into a new spot, so weight is totally arbitrary here beyond that of the rope itself.
It pains me to say this, but I am actually becoming fairly convinced now myself. A wand of dispell BS is a pretty weak argument as we play the game. Ah philosophers... this is up there with Planeshifting into present day Earth, possessing the minds of the players themselves at the table, and then attempting to Diplomacy and Bluff the DM into altering the basic rules of ingame reality. That one sure gave me headache.

Actually, I got the point.

The argument over passengers and weight was part of my Dispel BS, if you read back in the thread.

Teleport lists what can be carried, in terms of passengers and cargo. Noplace on the list are there any non-personal spell effects.

The Rope Trick isn't an item, like a Bag of Holding, that moves with the owner. It isn't a spell effect that follows the caster (or anybody else). Nothing in Teleport says you can take normally stationary spell effects. So, to put it simply, you can't.

Allowing the caster to take the spell effect, along with however much of the contents that were within the Teleport limit, was simply a compromise proposal. By the book, you'd take the rope and only the rope, as it's a movable item in your possession. The spell effect it's attached to (and can be detached from) is outside the Teleport spell's ability to move.

 

[Empirate]

Your group being made up of philosophers should make this argument pretty easy.

Explain to them that all in-game stuff is taking place in a fictional place called World*, where everything follows a non-realistic, imagination-based, narrative logic that only seems to be similar to the logic present in the Real World. Explain to them that while this World* may seem to follow many rules that are the same in our Real World, these rules all follow from one axiomatic principle that is fundamentally different: every rule in the World* exists solely to further the narrative.
Basic physics seeming to apply furthers the narrative in that the players can more easily wrap the head around what usually happens if you drop an object, start or stop moving, apply force to an object etc. Basic physics seeming to apply would not further the narrative of a combat, though, because that includes so many variables that the narrative would come to a full stop while trajectories, reaction times, and material deformation are calculated. The dictate of narrative logic demands that combat follow a simpler set of rules instead (given in chapter 8 of the PHB).
Moreover, the dictate of narrative logic that holds sway over World* demands that some situations behave in unforeseen ways that seem as if the only explanation for their unfolding is that they're dependent on a single individual's creativity and whims. That individual is called the DM*, and is functionally equivalent to Yours Truly sitting at the table with them. Incidentally, this individual's existence and role also create the whole frame of fictionality necessary to maintain World*'s existence, so going against his word might prove perilous. In both worlds. Also, if they're truly such creative players as to further break Rope Trick and Teleport, they'll probably find a new way to give you premature grey hair in a minute, so they might as well shut the fook up right now and get to playing the game as you see fit for the time being.

 

[Abraxus]

Hey cheers for your advice everybody

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I still want to know what happens when the planet moves away from the specific part of space-time the Rope Trick is cast at.

That's the part where you just have to say "it's magic!" and move on. The spell 'anchors' itself to the spot in the world where it's created. So it will move with the planet but get left behind if you cast it on a moving ship.

I think that's the only explanation that works, otherwise you wind up trying to figure out how north-south teleportation doesn't send you flying laterally at hundreds of miles per hour upon reaching your destination due to rotational speed differences. Or why the fighter's legs don't shatter when you cast Enlarge Person on him. Or a thousand other physics/magic problems.

IIRC, astrophysics hold something akin to everything moves gravitationally in relation to everything else. IRL, this is the earth rotating on it axis, the earth itself orbiting around the sun, our galaxy is swirling with other galaxies within the universe, etc.

In D&D, the reality rotates around the players, they literally are the center of the universe. Therefore, there is no planetary movement taking precedence over moving the hole away fro the location they are standing. In all the Multiverse, the players Are The Axis for which everything else turns.

Thereby, the hole stays put.