Rope trick teleportation?

[anest1s]

Straight from the mouth of a Jann Monk:
There are two points:

1. The extra-dimensional space is not at any particular location within the space of the world in which the rope trick is cast. The end of the rope acts as a point of connection to the extra-dimensional space, though, it is not dependent on the space the rope is in actuality occupying in the 'material' world. The spell clearly reads, that the fixture of the rope is: "as if affixed at the upper end." - Rope Trick, PHB

The rope can support up to 16,000 pounds. A weight greater than that can pull the rope free.

So yeah, you can teleport you you can lift 16k pounds- then you are able to take the rope with you. And only the rope. Except it you would also allow the teleportation of a magical portal to an other dimension (and I am not talking about an item). Or if you also rule that the players are getting trapped in the extra-dimensional space forever, if the rope gets disintegrated.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Rope Trick :: d20srd.org

The wording of Rope Trick specifically states "The upper end is, in fact, fastened to an extradimensional space that is outside the multiverse of extradimensional spaces (“planes”)."

The space is most definitely affixed to the rope, but when it says "The rope can support up to 16,000 pounds. A weight greater than that can pull the rope free." it doesn't specify what happens when the rope is "pulled free." Does the spell end? Does the rope get pulled free to leave the spell intact where it was? Does the rope actually drag the spell along with it? Heck, does it mean anything in the space heavier than 16,000 pounds breaks the spells?

We can't really compare Rope trick to a Bag of holding or Portable Hole because the latter two are actual items with permanent bonuses. Based upon the likely intent of them, Teleporting works with a Bag of Holding or Portable Hole. If it didn't the implications of a wizard leaving behind his spellbook or something is pretty severe.

I'm inclined to say Teleport doesn't work with Rope Trick just because of how weird it'd be for the spells to interact together, not to mention the limits of Teleport in the first place.

 

[kitcik]

it doesn't specify what happens when the rope is "pulled free."

This:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff0472dZ3LY]‪Up close video shot of TNT Pop-Its and Party Poppers‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

 

[A Jann Monk]

On the one hand...

Since the rope can be detached from the extradimensional space, it is therefore separate from that space, and constitutes neither an opening nor an anchor.

Why does that follow? All that you can take from this is that the rope can be detached.

Teleporting with the rope in your hand would indeed take the rope with you.

Good.

The opening to the extradimensional space would of course be left behind, as would any occupants. All you've done is detach the rope.

Again, your first premise doesn't seem very well anchored.

Teleport specifically says that it can't perform interplanar travel, so I don't see any way it could affect the people in the dimensional pocket.

Again, it doesn't follow without a defended P1.

On the other hand...
Would a caster leave behind a Bag of Holding, or its contents? Or a Portable Hole?

Yes, good point.

If I had to make a hard ruling, I'd cast Dispel BS on the entire thing, and limit the caster to the normal rules of Teleport, in terms of load and passengers.

The load for the caster of teleport is just the rope. The ROPE can only bear 16000 pounds. I.e., something weighing more than that can't climb it. That doesn't mean that once inside the space that the rope is bearing any weight, and the caster only the weight of the rope.

 

[Dandu]

A thought occurs; how does the Rope Trick deal with the fact that the planet is... rotating?

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

I'd *facepalm* here, but I'm pretty sure the rotation of the Earth would render that impossible for some reason.

So I'll suggest simply nuking it from orbit, instead.

 

[FoxWander]

Straight from the mouth of a Jann Monk:
There are two points:

1. The extra-dimensional space is not at any particular location within the space of the world in which the rope trick is cast. The end of the rope acts as a point of connection to the extra-dimensional space, though, it is not dependent on the space the rope is in actuality occupying in the 'material' world. The spell clearly reads, that the fixture of the rope is: "as if affixed at the upper end." - Rope Trick, PHB

2. The point of teleportation is that it is, teleportation, not movement. The rope doesn't 'move', and therefore constitute a pulling, as much as change place instantaneously. The rope's location is changed in its entirety, the end of the rope leads to a door in extra-dimensional space; it is not that the door in extra-dimensional space is affixed to the location the rope is originally cast at, i.e., the end of the rope is the door, not the location in physical space where the rope trick was originally cast.

Therefore as the rope is not affixed, nor is it 'move' by the teleportation in anything bar location in the 'material' world, there is no 'tearing' between the physical and the extra-dimentional space. The mage holds the rope, teleports and the party climbs back down the rope for some good old trojan horse style pillaging.

The affixture is not something in material space, it is being pulled from the extra-dimensional door, which requires an action on the rope, yet the rope's form does not change through teleportation.

Just because it is an oversight in the rules, on a meta level, does not mean it isn't possible within the game. Sure, it might be broken, though I think it's development is sufficiently scarce to allow its use in context. The DM can always ban it, she is, after all, the lord of space and time.

I have to agree with the reasoning here. Teleportation does not "pull" on anything, so it's not going to pull the rope free. (And even if you rule that it does exert that kind of pull- shouldn't the rope stay behind, or are you suggesting that your mage can pull 16K pounds with ONE HAND?!) If a mage can teleport with a bag of holding or a portable hole or a familiar pocket (if you want a common spell-based extra-dimensional space wizards might have), what makes rope trick so different? The spell clearly states the ED space is affixed to the end of the rope, which is just like the space attached to the bag for a bag of holding, the cloth etc.. So disallowing this rope trick, err, trick should also disallow teleporting with any other ED space.

 

[Jimlock]

SRD:


The rope can support up to 16,000 pounds. A weight greater than that can pull the rope free.

 

[Greenfield]

Why does that follow? All that you can take from this is that the rope can be detached.

Okay, I'll elaborate.

The Wiz can take the rope with him, since it isn't intrinsically part of the Rope Trick's extra dimensional space. It's within his capacity, so it goes with him.

If you wish to argue that it doesn't go with him, I'm fine with that too.

Again, your first premise doesn't seem very well anchored.

There is absolutely nothing in the Teleport spell that say you can take "space" with you, just people and weight.

Again, it doesn't follow without a defended P1.

P1 has been defended, and you said it was "good", even as you challenged it. But to continue...

The whole argument seems to be based on the idea that you can take the rope with you (it's within your capacity), and it can take several thousand pounds of stuff with it because it has a carry capacity. Now, maybe if the rope was alive, and could actually lift that much (as opposed to it simply have a point where it is torn apart), that might fly. But it isn't a creature, and it can't lift anything.

Moreover, it seems as if you're trying to take people and objects that aren't linked by any physical connection, just because they happen to be in a particular area of space. I don't know anyone who'd let that one fly.

The load for the caster of teleport is just the rope. The ROPE can only bear 16000 pounds. I.e., something weighing more than that can't climb it. That doesn't mean that once inside the space that the rope is bearing any weight, and the caster only the weight of the rope.

So I'll grab a rope, and any number of people can grab it and be carried along, because I'm just teleporting the rope?

I don't even need to cast Dispel BS on that one, it dispels itself.

The spell description says exactly how many creatures he or she can take along, and exactly how to determine the total cargo capacity. Noplace on that list does it say how much space you can take, or what type.

Attempts to bypass that by saying, "Well, we can take more so long as we actually aren't trying to lift and carry"..., or by saying, "I'll take the rope (or the carpet) and it will take everything else" are nonsense.

Unless, of course, you can show me how much independent teleport capacity a rope has???

My idea of having the extra people/weight fall on their collective duffs was just for comic relief, since the entire scheme is laughable.

 

[Abraxus]

I feel you are missing the point Greenfield. The whole idea is that the extradimensional space itself is not teleported as it is already outside the material universe. The people inside the rope trick are also not teleported per se either, because they are likewise already sitting within this dimensional pocket. Teleporting with the rope simply allows the entrance to this space to open into a new spot, so weight is totally arbitrary here beyond that of the rope itself.
It pains me to say this, but I am actually becoming fairly convinced now myself. A wand of dispell BS is a pretty weak argument as we play the game. Ah philosophers... this is up there with Planeshifting into present day Earth, possessing the minds of the players themselves at the table, and then attempting to Diplomacy and Bluff the DM into altering the basic rules of ingame reality. That one sure gave me headache.