RotG: Sneak Attack IV

[jgsugden]

We're going to start a thread on this article eventually, so I thought I'd start us off now ...

We can now see where Skip's rules for invisibility and flanking originate: he made a house rule (with Jonathan Tweet) and has worked it partially into the 'official' rules.

I am disappointed that he finished the series and never mentioned how hiding and sneak attacks work together specifically. Hiding is one of the primary methods by which a rogue gains sneak attacks. It should have had a specific mention ...

What do you folks think of this series of articles now that they're over?

Link

 

[Trainz]

Their house rule means that a rogue will mostly only do 1 sneak attack on a foe per combat IF he's only relying on flanking. What critter would not concentrate his attention on the rogue after receiving 50 odd damage from his puny rapier ?

If you use that house rule, and if you play a rogue mainly for the sneak attack ability, then you MUST go the invisible blade route.

Someone ( Hong ? ) mentioned that the rogue was nerfed. I'm just saying...

 

[Creeperman]

Personally, I like the "Rules of the Game" series. It's a convenient collection of Sage Advice columns covering a specific facet of the game, and it does a generally good job of explaining the system. In this article I found the references to spell volleys particularily useful, as I've seen an Arcane Trickster mow down dozens of foes with scorching ray sneak attacks with very little effort, and thought it was a little bit overboard.

The lack of attention to Hide is kind of disturbing, but maybe it'll be the subject of a future series. All in all, though, I found it informative and useful.

Of course, Hyp will probably be along shortly to wail and gnash his teeth about how Skip ruined the game this time, but hey, everyone's entitled.

 

[Trainz]

Of course, Hyp will probably be along shortly to wail and gnash his teeth about how Skip ruined the game this time, but hey, everyone's entitled.

Hey, I was the first to raise a complaint about it in THIS thread.

Don't burst my bubble.

 

[frankthedm]

I am disappointed that he finished the series and never mentioned how hiding and sneak attacks work together specifically. Hiding is one of the primary methods by which a rogue gains sneak attacks. It should have had a specific mention ...

Rulebook covers this to a degree, its practicaly impossible to hide while attacking [-20 on the hide check], you must have cover or concealment to hide.

HIDE (DEX; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
Check: Your Hide check is opposed by the Spot check of anyone who might see you. You can move up to one-half your normal speed and hide at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than one-half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty. It’s practically impossible (–20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging.
A creature larger or smaller than Medium takes a size bonus or penalty on Hide checks depending on its size category: Fine +16, Diminutive +12, Tiny +8, Small +4, Large –4, Huge –8, Gargantuan –12, Colossal –16.
You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway.
If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide. You can run around a corner or behind cover so that you’re out of sight and then hide, but the others then know at least where you went.
If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check; see below), though, you can attempt to hide. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Hide check if you can get to a hiding place of some kind. (As a general guideline, the hiding place has to be within 1 foot per rank you have in Hide.) This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.
Sniping: If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a –20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot.
Creating a Diversion to Hide: You can use Bluff to help you hide. A successful Bluff check can give you the momentary diversion you need to attempt a Hide check while people are aware of you.
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action. However, hiding immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
Special: If you are invisible, you gain a +40 bonus on Hide checks if you are immobile, or a +20 bonus on Hide checks if you’re moving.
If you have the Stealthy feat, you get a +2 bonus on Hide checks.
A 13th-level ranger can attempt a Hide check in any sort of natural terrain, even if it doesn’t grant cover or concealment. A 17thlevel ranger can do this even while being observed.

What critter would not concentrate his attention on the rogue after receiving 50 odd damage from his puny rapier ?

Damn right the rogue is getting a lot more attention after that!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Of course, Hyp will probably be along shortly to wail and gnash his teeth about how Skip ruined the game this time, but hey, everyone's entitled.

Actually, I don't have any problems with anything that was stated in this article.

There are a couple of things it would have been nice to see also, but I'm fine with the things he did say. His house rules were clearly labelled as such this time.

(Some might consider the negative-energy sneak attacks with spells to be Skip's house rules as well, but at least he got them published in Tome and Blood )

-Hyp.

 

[Li Shenron]

Actually, I don't have any problems with anything that was stated in this article.

I am not sure, but I thought that shortly ago there was a different FAQ or something similar about sneak attacks & nonlethal damage, which said that you can't sneak attack if you deal nonlethal damage with a weapon that normally does lethal damage, but you CAN sneak attack if you deal lethal damage with a weapon that normally does nonlethal damage. Instead in his latest article SW says you CAN't in both cases.

Boh, maybe it was just my imagination...

 

[nimisgod]

Actually, I don't have any problems with anything that was stated in this article.

Who are you and what have you done with the real Hyp?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Who are you and what have you done with the real Hyp?

Look, I said much the same thing for the Bonuses articles, and for the first couple of Sneak Attack articles!

It was only Part 3 that I really disliked.

-Hyp.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I understand the balance aspect of choosing to lump scorching ray in with volley effects, except for one thing. It clearly ISN'T a volley as he's defined it (multiple hits with one die roll).

An arcane trickster at high enough level could shoot two or three scorching rays but he gets to make a separate attack roll with each - mechanically there seems little difference between that and using a bow with rapid shot - an arcane trickster of the appropriate level would probably be getting at least three attacks in at that point with rapid shot.

The arcane trickster has the advantage that he is only making touch attacks to hit... but he only has a limited number of the spells available normally.

I don't dispute the rules at all, it is just that the inconsistency in the description of "Volley" bugs me because it is bound to cause some confusion down the line. If only they had said something like (italics for my modifications)

Volley Type Attacks

Sometimes, you make multiple attack rolls as part of the same action(?), such as when you use the Scorching Ray spell; or achieve multiple hits with one attack roll such as with the Manyshot feat. When you do so, only the first attack in the volley can be a sneak attack.

I'm not suggesting that is perfect, but to my mind that is less confusing. Naturally it would be possible to be even more clear and concise with a little more thought.

Regards