Round 14 Is Over

[jsewell]

Spell Penetration! until its gone its my vote

ditto

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Look, to use TWF properly, you need Ambidexterity,

You need what?

Two-Weapon Defense....

Ummm... why? That's like saying to use Point Blank Shot properly, you have to have Precise Shot.

and you are still limited to a decent weapon in one hand a toothpick in the other. So you get to make an extra attack each round with the toothpick? Yippee!!! another 1d4 + mods damage. The only way to really get past that problem is to be a large character, and you know how often that happens.

Or, you could try not just turning your nose up at all the other light weapons, many of which are often enhanced with bonus damage dice, and which I presume end up, in your party, just thrown away.

But I'd be willing to be you could thumb through any published module for levels 4+ and find a magical light weapon worth keeping. They're very common.

At least PS gives me a benefit when I take it.

No, actually, it doesn't. It doesn't give you a bonus at all unless conditions are met. It only offsets a penalty that you shouldn't be incurring anyway. I can get the exact same bonus out of Precise Shot by-- and I know, this is a crazy example, but bear with me-- choosing targets who are not engaged in melee with my companions.

Dolts.

Sorry Wulf.

No problem-- I like TWF, but it's not like I need to see it as the feat survivor. It's just that Precise Shot is no way, no how a better feat.

And I'd like to point out that, "All Precise Shot, all the time!" isn't near the fearsome warcry as "All Power Attack, all the time!"

My vote this time is purely strategic.

 

[interwyrm]

Spell Penetration

I did like the earlier comment: if you want to beat SR chose spells with SR: NONE !
Hardly seems worth spending a feat on.

Forget who originally said that, but it's a good point.
Just throw a mezzoloth (MM3) against your 6th level party and they will be wishing that they had just chosen spells with sr: no rather than trying to duke it out against SR22 with a +8 caster check.

 

[Tolen Mar]

*wipes the egg from his face*

Well that was a mistake, wasnt it? (I keep forgetting Ambi got nerfed. Shows what edition I've been playing lately.)

Ok, so you dont need ambi. And yes, TWD is NOT necesary to pull off a TWF fighter. However, if you are going to create such a fighter, then it is part and parcel of the concept.

Now, I did not say that PS gives me a BONUS when I take it, I said it gives a BENEFIT; which is the negation of an archer vs. melee penalty. I have also siad that PS doesn't go the distance. Until I have a PS that lets me accurately hit someone in a grapple, I wont be satisfied with either.

Now, For those who say that negating a penalty is not worth keeping a feat over, think about TWF. Even if you go with a light weapon and TWF it still doesnt negate the penalty. PS at least covers the whole thing, unlike the other one which only lessens it a bit. Personally, I still dont see the benefit of two weapons when Im still going to be wielding them to less effect than someone with one even after taking the feats needed to make it work.

And in regards to the light weapons thing: Yeah, there are ways to beef up a light weapon to make it do a reasonable amount of damage. I never said there werent. But at the same time, its expensive enough getting one weapon enhanced to a useful point, let alone two of them. And there will still be a difference in damage. I guess I just like parity where I can find it. (And yes, you can take ANOTHER feat to allow two same-sized weapons, but then, thats the basis of my whole anti-TWF argument; needing more feats to pull it off properly.)

So there you have it...I admit I was wrong. Even I cant be right all the time.

(And Wulf...how about an alliance...next round Ill help kill PS if you promise to help kill TWF. Deal?)

 

[Breakstone]

As others have noted, all the above feats except Spell Penetration have seen play in my campaigns. And thus, I must vote for it.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I'm voting TWF off the island. Although it looks like Spell Penetration is going. Alas, it is a staple of my mid-high level games.

 

[cthulhu_duck]

If you are thinking that you can use the OOTBI's power, it is a standard action, so it means only one attack per round if you add the extra damage. This averages 13 damage per hit or 39 damage per round.

I'll have to get the player with the character to check his figures and the book then - since he's been happily rolling 3d8 on every shot inside the range required and using rapid shot at the same time (I've looked briefly at the ability, but that was some time ago...)

You can sneak attack with any weapon by hitting them somewhere it hurts, and any weapon is a valid choice if someone's playing the tricksy dirty fighting SOB. I'd rather use a big brutal weapon to take down someone fast, daggers are tools and stylish thrown weapons, not a primary weapon. Seems to me that you're way too fast to call twink.

The player concerned is one of the groups's munchkin powergamers - perhaps the tactic itself isn't twinky, and I'm just cross contaminating my view of the tactic...

You obviously consider Power Attack to be an awesomely powerful feat. Doesn't that mean it should be winning this competition, rather than being voted off?

This is Feat Survivor, not 'what is the best Feat' - typically in Survivor, the strongest contestants get voted off the moment they don't have immunity - since the weaker contestants realise that if they don't eliminate the stronger contestants, then they (the stronger contestants) have a better chance of winning through to the final three.

And yes, I consider Power Attack a very useful feat

 

[Nifft]

I keep forgetting... by what criteria are we supposed to be judging these feats?

Vote for worst? Best? Most annoying?

-- N

 

[Gez]

There are no criteria. Vote for the ones you want to see eliminated. It could be "most broken", "most annoying", "least powerful", "least useful", "least seen", "most munchkin"... Whatever your criteria, vote for a feat you don't like, whether you reproach it to be too common, too rare, too powerful, too weak, or too un-featlike.

 

[Nifft]

There are no criteria. Vote for the ones you want to see eliminated.

Eliminated from... what exactly? The core rules? My campaign? Or just this list?

If the last... golly. -- N